The Martial Arts Curator Forum
« Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Shodan) »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Dec 29, 2009, 8:04am




The Martial Arts Curator Forum :: General :: All Other MA Kata Discussion :: Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Shodan)
« Page 2 of 2 Jump to page   Go    [Search This Thread][Send Topic To Friend] [Print]
 AuthorTopic: Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Shodan) (Read 1,840 times)
supergroup7
Associate Curator
*****
1st Dan
member is offline



Associate Curator



Joined: Nov 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
 Re: Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Sho
« Reply #15 on Mar 14, 2006, 11:22am »

Yes, Colin.. the movement is the same.. but different.. because you are using the power in a different way. There's where my confusion lies... How does one know when the karate ka is applying a movement properly, or when the karate ka is totally unaware of what he/she is doing?

Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged

Just doing my best.
Colin Wee
Executive Curator
*****
4th Dan
member is offline

[avatar]

[icq] [msn]
[homepage]

Joined: Feb 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 696
Location: Perth, Western Australia
 Re: Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Sho
« Reply #16 on Mar 17, 2006, 8:33pm »

You'll never know for sure.

In terms of my bunkai manual, I worked on the premise that the forms have strategic lessons - and these lessons guide you to decipher the techniques embedded.

But all that doesn't matter as much as when you need to use it for real and when you need to bring that bugger down.

Colin
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged

--
Colin Wee has been practising since 1983 and holds black belt ranks in two martial arts. Colin is Chief Instructor of HRGB http://www.hikarudojo.com, located in W. Australia. Colin champions a great WSD program and TKD 'bunkai' research http://traditionaltaekwondo.blogspot.com. IAOMAS member and MLCA Affiliate. Visit me: http://www.colinwee.com.
supergroup7
Associate Curator
*****
1st Dan
member is offline



Associate Curator



Joined: Nov 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
 Re: Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Sho
« Reply #17 on May 1, 2006, 9:02pm »

And that the block is a strike against their arm to dislodge or weaken their attack.

This advice was given to me by Bill about half a year ago, and it is only today, after reading up on Colin's explanations of the Chon-Ji Tae Kwon do kata that everything clicked in my head, and I understood what was being said.

Wow.. experience is SO important to being able to unravel the various movements contained in a kata. No wonder you could perform the same kata a thousand times, and still get something out if it.

Thank you, Colin for this forum. It really helps.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged

Just doing my best.
Colin Wee
Executive Curator
*****
4th Dan
member is offline

[avatar]

[icq] [msn]
[homepage]

Joined: Feb 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 696
Location: Perth, Western Australia
 Re: Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Sho
« Reply #18 on May 1, 2006, 9:30pm »

Thanks Mir. The block is no different from any other weapon. All you've got to do is recalibrate your mind to it, rather than thinking of it in a defensive manner.

Colin
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged

--
Colin Wee has been practising since 1983 and holds black belt ranks in two martial arts. Colin is Chief Instructor of HRGB http://www.hikarudojo.com, located in W. Australia. Colin champions a great WSD program and TKD 'bunkai' research http://traditionaltaekwondo.blogspot.com. IAOMAS member and MLCA Affiliate. Visit me: http://www.colinwee.com.
supergroup7
Associate Curator
*****
1st Dan
member is offline



Associate Curator



Joined: Nov 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
 Re: Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Sho
« Reply #19 on May 11, 2008, 8:39pm »

Colin said "But all that doesn't matter as much as when you need to use it for real and when you need to bring that bugger down."

Bringing the bugger down.... hmmm....

Experience with this kata, and with more inner knowledge to draw from, I have noticed another possible application of the opening move.

My problem now? being able to explain it, or demonstrate it with effectiveness. The concept is in my head, but I know that it will be years before my body will be able to perform it properly.

Perhaps, I thought to myself, I might describe it, and someone more experienced ( like Colin) would see the potential, and if it is worthy to explore, he might enhance it, purify it, and make a video of it for me to watch? So here goes...

What if.. the opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi ( Heian Shodan) ( Pyugn Ahn Cho Dan) is an anticipatory move where the defender surges into the attacker with a strike to unbalance the attacker using the right arm(i.e.: the folding action of the down block) and simulateously placing the left arm up and under the attacker's right arm hooking upwards, and gaining control of the attacker. (This defense happens even before the attacker is at the point of sending an attack. This is happening at the time when the attacker is still closing distance, and using aggressive sounds to intimidate.) Already unbalanced, and under control, the defender only needs to follow through with the rest of the down block motion to create an arm bar on the right arm/shoulder of the attacker. A killing blow to the base of the skull by the right fist is now offered by the position of the attacker.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 8:40pm by supergroup7 »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged

Just doing my best.
supergroup7
Associate Curator
*****
1st Dan
member is offline



Associate Curator



Joined: Nov 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
 Re: Opening move of Pinan Sono Ichi (aka Heian Sho
« Reply #20 on Jul 24, 2008, 9:27pm »

It took awhile for me to realize that the thoughts in my head just do not translate well into statements, and it would be near impossible for someone else to capture what I "see" within. Perhaps that is why kata is so flexible, and wonderful, as each person can unearth their own interpretation to a movement.

Therefore, with time, and effort, I will see if I can capture that idea that I had into proper movement, and put it on a video.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged

Just doing my best.
« Page 2 of 2 Jump to page   Go    [Search This Thread][Send Topic To Friend] [Print]

Kata (型 or 形) (literally: "form") is a detailed pattern of defense-and-attack used in traditional Japanese martial arts.

Kata (型 or 形) (literally: "form") is a Japanese word describing detailed patterns of defense-and-attack movements practiced either solo or in pairs. Kata are used by most traditional Japanese and Okinawan martial arts, such as Aikido, Iaido, Jodo, Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, Kendo and Karate. Other arts such as Tae Kwon Do and T'ai Chi Ch'uan feature the same kind of training, but use the respective Korean and Chinese words instead.

The actual type and frequency of kata training varies from art to art. In Iaido, solo kata using the Japanese sword katana comprises almost all of the training, whereas in Judo, kata training is de-emphasized and usually only high-ranking practitioners train in classical two-person kata. Kenjutsu kata are paired sword drills. However, the most popular image associated with kata is that of a karate practitioner performing a series of punches and kicks in the air.

Many martial arts use kata for public demonstrations and in competitions, awarding points for such aspects of technique as style, balance, timing, and verisimilitude (appearance of being real).

Kata in Karate

The Karate practitioner performing kata executes a specified series of approximately 20 to 70 moves, generally with stepping and turning, while attempting to maintain perfect form. There are close to 100 katas in all forms of karate. The number of moves in a kata may be referred to in the name of the kata, eg. Gojushiho, which means "54 steps." The number of moves may also have links with Buddhist spirituality. The number 108 is significant in Buddhism, and kata with 54, 36, or 27 moves (factors of 108) are common. The practitioner is generally counselled to visualize the enemy attacks, and his or her responses, as actually occurring.

In teaching the open handed kata, most styles of Karate start with a series of five basic kata named Pinan in some systems and Heian in others. By working through this series (in order: Shodan, Nidan, Sandan, Yondan, Godan (except in Wado Ryu Karate, where Shodan and Nidan are reversed)) the practitioner learns all the basic stances and techniques before moving on to more advanced kata. Traditionally, kata are taught in stages. Previously learned kata are returned to in order to show more advanced techniques or ways of doing things, as beginners don't have the same knowledge and experience that practioners further up the ranks have. It is not uncommon in some styles for students testing for Shodan (first rank black belt) to have to repeat every kata they've learned from the first belt, but at a "black belt" level, i.e. with better technique, power, etc. This system is often used for the lower grades as well. The student will perform one new kata and one or two previous ones, to demonstrate how much they have progressed and how quickly they can learn new things. For more information and video footage of all kata in karate see karateonline

Criticism of kata training

Critics of kata argue that kata produce stereotyped responses, making unexpected moves by opponents more dangerous. They claim that kata teaches the student very little, since it is mostly a matter of 'monkey see - monkey do' instead of the actual mastery of techniques. Martial arts is a livelihood for many teachers. Since many, or even most, people do not have the skills to become an accomplished martial artist, failure might turn them away from martial arts, thus threatening the income of the teacher. Critics of kata claim that kata gives the teacher a chance to give students the impression that they have really learned something, while all they have learned is to mimic the teacher's moves. The object of these teachers, critics argue, is not to teach the students something useful, but to make them continue their lessons (and pay the teacher's fees). Many, more qualified, instructors make the point that although Kata is of little use in a real fight, it does form a sound platform on which to develop basic skills. The Dojo is, after all, a controlled environment and kata provides a good way in which to teach proper stance, movement and balance without resorting to half- or full-contact training. Critics of kata also make the same point about the (coloured) belt system, claiming it is more about giving the student a sense of accomplishment so that they will continue to follow lessons than indicating actual skill; however, defenders of the belt system point out that it is just as important (for teaching reasons) as having different grades in school, and any arrogance, etc., about belt grades is a failure to teach students the more spiritual aspects of karate, such as humility, self-control and respect.

In Zen tradition, there are 3 stages of learning - "Shu" (familiarity), "Li" (leaving), and "Po" (break away). This tradition emphasizes the need for the student to mimic the master, before having his own ideas and developing new ideas independently. This method emphasizes the specific before the generic, in the same way that an Inuit child is taught to fish before learning about ice floes.

The Shaolin tradition perhaps, summarizes the whole point of practising kata - skill without form is useless; form without skill is useless; it is skill and form that makes techniques effective.

Defenders of kata practice say that it is akin to the practice of meditation and that performing these ritualized moves again and again means that they can be performed without thinking, exactly the sort of ability you may need in a genuine self-defense situation. In the "Poems of the Fists", a set of karate sayings, there is one that goes, "techniques occur in the absence of thought." In Zen analogy, techniques occur as quickly, simply and naturally as clapping hands. Kata, then, is a form of 'moving meditation,' giving the martial artist the unthinking muscle-memory upon which to draw in the heat of battle, where the time spent having to think about what to do next may mean the difference between victory and defeat. Kata practice may also provide the more traditional benefits of meditation: increased focus, awareness and self-discipline. Also, as kata are solo battles, they enable various techniques and concepts to be practiced for actual use in fights. The Goju-Ryu kata of Saifa, for example, aims to teach the student correct movement of hips to generate power in short spaces or when grabbed, and thus incorporates techniques that can only work if you use your hips correctly.

In vietnamese martial arts, eg. Vovinam Viet Vo Dao a Kata is called a Quyen.

The korean Tae Kwon Do uses the term Pattern.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Google
Webcwee.proboards.com
Click Here To Make This Board Ad-Free


This Board Hosted For FREE By ProBoards
Get Your Own Free Message Boards & Free Forums!