|
Post by supergroup7 on Dec 22, 2005 23:19:02 GMT 8
I'm working on the first opening moves of the Pinan (Heian) kata, and looking for creative Bunkai that fits the body movements. I've had some ideas, but I'm wondering how far can I go with adapting the kata to application.
For example:
I was picturing using the Juji Uke ( cross hand block ) as a frontal attack to the neck of my opponent. Normally the Juji Uke is performed off to the right side. However, for me to attack my opponent's neck, I will have to send the power straight in front of me. Can I get away with that?
Another thought that I had was "What if my opponent came from behind me to put me into a head lock (and choke) with his left arm." As I turn my head to the left (part of the kata) I place my chin in the crook of his arm to not allow him to gain access to my neck. Then I step forwards to the left in front stance,which drops my weight, and unbalances him, while grabbing his left wrist with my left hand (right hand naturally coming up to support the effort). That would be similar to the movement of a Juji Uke.. but the hands would be really, really close to my right shoulder instead of out to the side.
I'm wondering if this is going too far out in left field, and distorting the kata.
|
|
|
Post by wmioch on Dec 27, 2005 19:15:08 GMT 8
Could you describe the move itself? My Pinan is rusty and I can't remember which opening you are talking about.
|
|
|
Post by supergroup7 on Dec 30, 2005 7:16:15 GMT 8
Could you describe the move itself?
Oh boy.. I bet you that explaining the first moves is going to be harder than I even dared to dream.
You start in Fudo Dachi (Ready stance). Turn your head to the left, and then step out with your left leg into zenkutsu dachi (Front stance) doing a Gedan Berai ( down block) with your left arm.
Now, in many styles the Gedan Berai is set with a straight cover arm in front of you, but in my style of Kyokushin you set the Gedan Berai by doing an X block (Juji Uke) at head high on the opposite side of your body (in this case the right arm), and using the inner arm to come down for the block.
I'm trying to be creative, and to think "what if the block isn't a block, but an attack instead.." and that's where all of my confusion starts.
|
|
|
Post by wmioch on Dec 30, 2005 7:46:02 GMT 8
It depends on how creative you're being.
I think the frontal idea is an okay one (and the first one that came to my mind as well.)
My opinion would be that your cross block is a loading motion over the top of someones arms, grabbing either your neck or clothing.
And that the block is a strike against their arm to dislodge or weaken their attack.
Weapon: probably the forearm or the back of the elbow
Target: either the wrist or the elbow. There is a nice tendonous bunch on the top of the elbow that is a great target for releasing/weakening grabs.
Alternatively, you might want to spend some time exploring wrist grabs and how the cross block motion might help to escape from them.
|
|
|
Post by Colin Wee on Dec 30, 2005 8:01:30 GMT 8
Stuart Anslow has showed a Lower Block as a defence against a cross arm front shoulder grab. The fist is raised, grabs on opponent's hand and the lower block does a kotegaeshi or wrist turn out and throws the guy down to the ground.
Colin
|
|
|
Post by Colin Wee on Dec 30, 2005 8:21:39 GMT 8
I'm wondering if this is going too far out in left field, and distorting the kata. The kata is there for you to learn from. How are you supposed to distort it? Colin
|
|
|
Post by wmioch on Dec 30, 2005 8:27:23 GMT 8
In karate kata, I've always found that application to be most obvious in double roundhouse elbow strikes, one after the other, like in Yansu kata (that's a Kyokushin one).
The first "strike" is coming over the arms to grab the hand, and the second is the wrist turn or arm lock.
|
|
|
Post by supergroup7 on Jan 3, 2006 23:37:06 GMT 8
Dear wise, experienced friends, I'm having problems understanding the terminology. For example, I have no clue what a "loading motion", a "a cross arm front shoulder grab", or a "kotegaeshi or wrist turn" could be describing. Which is fine by me, because I know that in time I will learn which part of what I'm doing fits in each term. Thank you for your suggestions, they give me a "seed" of thought to help me continue in my quest.
I totally agree with your comment Alternatively, you might want to spend some time exploring wrist grabs and how the cross block motion might help to escape from them.
Isn't that always the way of life? You need experience to get an employment, but you need employment to get experience. OR in martial arts terms: You need experience to recognize the possibilities, but you need to practice the possibilities to get the experience.
|
|
|
Post by supergroup7 on Jan 3, 2006 23:42:16 GMT 8
The kata is there for you to learn from. How are you supposed to distort it? Colin I would gather that I distort the kata by going too far from the intended movements. For example, the two opening moves are a downblock, and a lunge punch in front stance. If I start changing the stance to a cat stance, and doing a sideways shift pressing block instead of a downblock, and a roundhouse kick instead of a punch, I feel that I've now distorted that part of the kata. In figuring out bunkai to a movement I feel that the goal is not to recreate, but to reveal opportunities.
|
|
|
Post by wmioch on Jan 4, 2006 5:27:48 GMT 8
A loading motion = chambering. pulling back your punch. Loading the strike before firing.
Imagine that the cross block part is not a block, but a lead into the strike which comes next, like pulling your fist back before punching.
I admit, I left out the grabbing and locking terminology because I knew that it wasn't really what you were looking for. I thought you might have more fun exploring it for yourself a bit. Afterall, I don't know what will work for you. Maybe I will learn something new.
|
|
|
Post by Colin Wee on Jan 4, 2006 13:53:59 GMT 8
Dear wise, experienced friends, I'm having problems understanding the terminology. For example, I have no clue what a "loading motion", a "a cross arm front shoulder grab", or a "kotegaeshi or wrist turn" could be describing. I have no idea what a loading motion is. A cross arm front shoulder grab is done when your training partner stands in front of you, and reaches across his body to grab your shoulder. A same hand grab is when he stands in front of you and reaches on one side to your shoulder. A kotegaeshi is an aiki wrist lock that rotates the palm of the hand towards the outside of your body. Therein lies the challenge. Colin
|
|
|
Post by Colin Wee on Jan 4, 2006 14:01:41 GMT 8
I would gather that I distort the kata by going too far from the intended movements. But you'd still be performing the kata 'as is'. So any application could be variations of what the kata is teaching you. Thus you are not distorting it at all! But a downblock can be applied to a kick or to a punch. It could also be applied to a grab, someone rushing at you, or a weapon. The basic downblock seems unchanged to me yet is applied very differently for all these challenges. If you change it to a cat stance, yes ... you may be distorting the kata's lessons. However, let's say you think this initial downblock teaches a hip throw - you step behind the guy, and perform a downblock across his body. Well, if you want variations then you can explore how to do a hip throw from a horse stance or a back stance. That sort of variation preserves the principle of what you see as the takeaway from that part of the form but allows you to plug in variations which help you accomplish what the kata wants you to do. Does this distort the kata? Depends on if you see the kata aesthetically or conceptually. That's what I seek too! Colin
|
|
|
Post by Colin Wee on Jan 4, 2006 14:03:33 GMT 8
A loading motion = chambering. thingying your punch. Loading the strike before firing. Also known as Hiki Te - pull back fist or Reaction Hand (a TKD term). Colin
|
|
|
Post by supergroup7 on Mar 10, 2006 20:59:47 GMT 8
Lately I've noticed that the opening move of this kata can be done with direct hip rotation. I was initially taught the opening move with reverse hip rotation. For me, this revelation changes the Bunkai immensely.
When my hips are moving with direct hip rotation there is a totally different feel to my torso as I perform the downblock. The power of the movement feels all directed forwards and to the left. When using reverse hip rotation (which seems to be rare out in the internet martial arts world) there is an initial move of squaring on with your opponent.. so the power feels like swivelling back and forth (balanced).. towards, then away.
Also... I've been noticing that the direct hip rotation causes a narrow linear front stance than the reverse hip rotation. This would hint (to me) that most of the power will be directed forwards, and not sideways.. since a narrow long front stance is similar to how a fencing person thrusts out their sword.
When I first started learning this kata as a white belt. I would use direct hip rotation, and end up in a narrow unstable front stance almost falling over myself. ( I would be corrected constantly) Now that I have been training for awhile, and have raised in rank.. I am going BACK to using direct hip rotation, and ending up in a narrow linear front stance.. but now I know how to use my body to make that stance work for me.
If I was judgeing this kata at a mixed martial arts tournament, and I see a performer open the kata with direct hip rotation, and a wide stance.. would I consider this as an error? or in other words that the person doesn't understand what they are doing?
|
|
|
Post by Colin Wee on Mar 10, 2006 23:19:05 GMT 8
When we do our line drills for lower block, we go through several variations: 1. Turning to the side in order to use the folding as a block/cover for strikes from the side. 2. Hip twist right in the end. 3. Little hip twist - lunging into the move 4. Going backwards
Yes. They're all different aren't they?
Colin
|
|