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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 2, 2006 5:44:11 GMT 8
Ah.. dear friends.. I have a question.
How does one start personally figuring out the most supportive, and positive breathing associated with the performance of kata? Especially the more complex, and convoluted kata such as Bassai?
I've seen guidelines in the kata books that show the build up, and lowering of power. I've read of which muscles should be active, and which ones should be quiet. Yet no where have I read of the breathing pattern that accompanies the kata.. example: short intake breath.. long pause while exhaling slowly with a sharp exhale at the end.
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Post by sbwright on Jun 2, 2006 11:15:48 GMT 8
Its a hard one for me to answer as we do this particular form at break neck speed. Breathing as qick and as often as you can is advisable. ; )
That being said examine each of the moves. Quick moves quick in take of breath. Focussed, tensioned moves requiring brute strength slow steady exhalation
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 5, 2006 23:10:32 GMT 8
we do this particular form at break neck speed. Breathing as qick and as often as you can is advisable. ; )
I have been told by my first Sensei that he has seen some people performing their kata while holding their breath throughout the whole kata. Since many kata take less than a minute to perform, I could see this as a possiblity, but wow! that must be a difficult action to achieve.
I was just wondering the following:
a) Breathing is central to execution of technique. b) Kata flows around a pattern. c) Therefore there should be a breathing pattern inherent to each kata. (Despite individual differences) We can loudly see the breathing pattern in such kata as Sanchin, or Hangetsu. What about Bassai? d) Has anyone documented the most efficient breaths that accompany the various techniques?
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Post by sbwright on Jun 6, 2006 6:22:01 GMT 8
I personally see Kata as a selection of techniques, sequences strung together. I suspect that the breathing, tempo, timing need to work in unison for optimum effeciency.
I have not documented anything but I know that I exhale on the execution of each technique.
I don't know that it is good to focus to heavily on the pattern or flow of a Kata unless you are performing it as a moving meditation.
Stikes to my mind should be performed with a sharp exhalation(this includes blocks). Moves that require focussed stregth ie the label grab response in Basai and the Tiger claws at the beggining of my version of Jitte should be slow like you were lifting weights.
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 8, 2006 22:48:12 GMT 8
Would you say that there might be some moments in a kata wherein you would want to do an extended controlled breath for 5 or 6 techniques done quickly in a row Kiai-ing solidly on the last one, rather than trying to accent each strike with your breath?
I would assume that continuing a medium contraction of one's center would be more beneficial to the speed of a series of strikes than bouncing your gut in and out quickly with each strike? Would you agree?
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 8, 2006 22:51:13 GMT 8
Also, when performing a kick, I found it advantageous to start breathing out as I brought up my knee. The action of breathing out solidified my balance, and allowed my knee to move up higher. Therefore I found that the breathing out action of the kicks in my kata start almost as soon as I shift my weight onto my support foot.
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Post by Colin Wee on Jun 9, 2006 11:00:49 GMT 8
Also, when performing a kick, I found it advantageous to start breathing out as I brought up my knee. The action of breathing out solidified my balance, and allowed my knee to move up higher. Therefore I found that the breathing out action of the kicks in my kata start almost as soon as I shift my weight onto my support foot. Breathing out at the start of any technique is fairly advantageous - one shouldn't hold on to that breath for the idea that it may make the movement stronger. As for the ending of the breath - sometimes I would bring the knee up, breath out as in a 'small' kiai at the appropriate time to feint a kick, and then a split second later launch the actual leg. This confuses the opponent, who only sees the knee raise, surmise that you're kicking at a particiular instant, rushes in or performs his block/cover/strike whilst hearing your breath, and this gives you a split second to launch your actual attack whilst he is in transit between one technique and knowing what you are doing. MuHahahahahahaha. In my katas, the breath I use starts off by squeezing the lungs when you start a technique, continuing the exhale, then squeezes harder when you do the strike. So it is a continuous use of exhalation. This relates better to my sparring breathing than the sharp exhalation of breath at the end of each technique. And from the example above, allows me to use my breath as part of my bag of tricks. Colin
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 9, 2006 20:41:36 GMT 8
"In my katas, the breath I use starts off by squeezing the lungs when you start a technique, continuing the exhale, then squeezes harder when you do the strike. So it is a continuous use of exhalation."
Is THIS what you meant by the "AH... Haaaaa" breathing pattern during a kata?
If so, I got the wrong idea.. I was breathing in with the "ah" part.. I would attempt to start my movement by allowing myself to take in a small amount of air, and then keep a steady breathing out motion throughout the technique.. ending with a sharp exhale at the point of connection. My goal was to keep exhaling after the kiai to extend the force forwards, and to flow into the next technique with another "ah" part... No wonder I was having troubles getting the same results as what you had described. I wasn't doing your suggestions properly.
Would we ever use breathing IN during a technique on purpose? Like for instance, we find ourselves needing air, so we do a quick jab to the face of our opponent to "cover" ourselves as we breath.. and then follow with a series of strong attacks.
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 24, 2006 1:05:33 GMT 8
O.K... I have another question on breathing:
What does one do to calm down that paniced breathing that happens when your body is starting to get tired during sparring?
How do you cover/ move to find moments to pull in a deeper breath if you are breathing out with your strikes?
Does our kata teach us how to breath in between those moments of attack/advance/ defend/ retreat? From most of the kata that I perform in my art we almost always move forwards, or turn in spot with each technique. RARELY, have I seen us move backwards. I'd say that out of the kata that are taught at the kyu level, only Bassai Dai has a backwards move.. and only in one place.
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Post by Colin Wee on Jun 26, 2006 12:29:25 GMT 8
O.K... I have another question on breathing: What does one do to calm down that paniced breathing that happens when your body is starting to get tired during sparring? If I had my breathing run ragged. I'd take a deeper breath in and 'sigh' it out. That helps me relax the lungs in the upper chest. I don't think there's any equivalent of this in my katas. During slow breaths you breathe in deeply - in pattern Kwang-gae you do this at the beginning, in the middle of the form and right at the end, but there's no 'sigh' when letting it out. :-) Sport based fighting comes hard and fast especially when the gloves are on. But if you're looking at a semi-contact type event when there's a high chance of knockouts, the fight slows down a little. During when you're sizing up the opponent's next move, you can use the deep breath in and sigh out. I wouldn't concentrate too much on the 'pulling' of the breath in - that's what gets you into trouble int he first place. The kata doesn't teach you how to breathe in. It teaches you how to breathe out. The movement back doesn't indicate a different breathing. My general rule of thumb is that any movement should require you to breathe out. Dependant on the power required you can let out a little breath or a lot. Putting this into practice means you should breathe out when you step forward and let the full breath out when you finish the lunge strike. This means if two techniques come in quick sequence, you might use the same lung-fill to complete both. Similarly if you step backward, this is an exhalation as well. If my theory holds true, then you would get the chance to 'breathe in deeply' when you have finished with the opponent - either he is down on the floor or you are controlling him (like having a fistful of his hair drawn down to waist level). Most practitioners should find this breathing economical - you only expend real effort when you have to strike him hard or if you need to extricate yourself out of a clinch. Colin
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Post by Colin Wee on Jun 26, 2006 12:34:10 GMT 8
Would we ever use breathing IN during a technique on purpose? Like for instance, we find ourselves needing air, so we do a quick jab to the face of our opponent to "cover" ourselves as we breath.. and then follow with a series of strong attacks. If I use what I have gained from formwork, the intentional breath in could occur when you're setting up a lock or 'positioning' your opponent for another technique. I suppose the breath in could be done when you're covering yourself up from an attack. As for quick jab in the face ... this should not be done any other way except with a breath out. Striking whilst breathing in means your torso is not really applying good core tension linking your upper body to your lower body. Colin
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Post by Colin Wee on Jun 26, 2006 12:41:25 GMT 8
What does one do to calm down that paniced breathing that happens when your body is starting to get tired during sparring? If sparring is all that stressful that you start to panic, then something is not quite right. It is a training session after all. You should tailor it to suit your needs. Most people think sparring is about moving top speed, using full power, and throwing hundreds of techniques. This is incorrect. Gauge the opponent, dictate your own pace, and relax through the exercise. People get panicked because they think they've got to obliterate the opponent and the opponent is going to do the same. This is the wrong kind of thinking ... and is more expected of a schoolyard brawl. Experienced fighters measure themselves. An all out blitz rarely occurs. Colin
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 26, 2006 21:22:11 GMT 8
As for quick jab in the face ... this should not be done any other way except with a breath out. Striking whilst breathing in means your torso is not really applying good core tension
Oh yes.. I agree so much Colin.. a strike needs that tension to be effective.. but what if you use the jab as a feint (not intending to actually contact, but only going out to give yourself some time/space.. ) You wouldn't need to breath out if you aren't REALLY intending to use that strike.. would you?
"People get panicked because they think they've got to obliterate the opponent and the opponent is going to do the same. This is the wrong kind of thinking ... and is more expected of a schoolyard brawl. Experienced fighters measure themselves."
But.. but... Colin... I've gotten the strongest impression that some of my opponents in sparring ARE trying to obliterate me when we spar.
I have had the wonderful opportunity to spar with people who are experienced, and measured. It's GREAT because we are training together, challenging each other, bringing out the best in each other.
Then there are the times when I have faced off with someone who just wants to "win" no matter what.. maybe it's because they see sparring in that mentality, or maybe it's because of something that I do will set them off, or maybe it's because they do not want to feel bested by another... but there is the distinct impression that they are willing to damage their opponent before they will let them have the upper hand. Since I do not wish to be damaged, I find myself kicking into high gear at that point.
The quick paniced breathing will set in, I can feel my breath moving up from the deep breathing that I usually do when I train. My kiai will get higher in tone, and more fierce. I realize that this will tire me more quickly, so I try to calm myself.. but I don't know how. My body seems to "feel" the threat of my opponent's movements, and responds immediately.. my mind keeps telling it to relax, calm down.. but the body argues immensely. I've figured that breathing is the key here.
Are there hints in our kata as to how to handle these situations?
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Post by Colin Wee on Jun 26, 2006 22:05:37 GMT 8
As for quick jab in the face ... this should not be done any other way except with a breath out. Striking whilst breathing in means your torso is not really applying good core tension Oh yes.. I agree so much Colin.. a strike needs that tension to be effective.. but what if you use the jab as a feint (not intending to actually contact, but only going out to give yourself some time/space.. ) You wouldn't need to breath out if you aren't REALLY intending to use that strike.. would you? In my opinion, you'd be breathing out, but not as forecfully as you would if you were striking. The feint needs to look like the real thing down to the way it sounds. No feint would work if you don't convey the right intention. Hahahahah. YOu're right. They are. But why should this change your game plan or your reaction to them? If you have to change something then your performance must have a deficit of something that requires you to reach out for something different when you think the threat is somehow a little more different than before. Well that's the way to learn. Now if you've brought out the best in yourself, you should try to use this 'best' against any and all opponents. It's natural. This is natural too. Yes. The kata says you should grab the opponent's finger/wrist/elbow/neck and wrench it out of their normal range of movement. Or stick your fingers in the opponent's eyes/neck. You could try to rip his testicles off. Or perhaps break his foot. Once the opponent is unable to threaten you, your breath should flow much easier! Colin
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 27, 2006 22:00:15 GMT 8
So much wisdom, and knowledge!!! Thank you Colin!!! Thank you for your guidance, and investment into my path. I will chew over what you have handed me about breathing during sparring, and kata, and try to injest, and understand it better. THANK you!
The kata says you should grab the opponent's finger/wrist/elbow/neck and wrench it out of their normal range of movement. Or stick your fingers in the opponent's eyes/neck. You could try to rip his testicles off. Or perhaps break his foot. Once the opponent is unable to threaten you, your breath should flow much easier!
I was helplessly laughing for at least 15 minutes after reading this paragraph. My husband came into the room in concern because I had tears of laughter flowing from my eyes, and I was making gurgling sounds of mirth. OF course you'd breath much better after doing that to your opponent.. HA HA HA. I keep forgetting that my goal is to finish with the threat as fast as possible when being attacked not to prolong the experience of defending myself.
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