mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Mar 24, 2011 3:45:14 GMT 8
Well, everyone wants a style that was founded by a chinese master. 4 years later, I still have not found the answer. I would like to see the china version, but that too is still elusive...
cheers
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Aug 17, 2007 1:31:10 GMT 8
I didn't find much for now. Except that hangetsu and sanchin dachi are often confounded... still searching.
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Oct 18, 2006 21:55:18 GMT 8
It's the first time I hear that...
Interesting. Thanks!
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Oct 18, 2006 1:43:29 GMT 8
Hello all.
About 6 or 7 months ago, I started researching on the origins of a specific kata, Seisan.
I know it's probably an over-used topic already, but I'm really curious as to this kata and I've hit a wall in my research.
Seisan, Seishan, Hangetsu, Ssi Syan (Ban Wol / Shi Shan) has no official counterpart in chinese arts that I know of. Yet, looking at Kanji characters used, the meanings vary greatly from
13, 13 hands, 13 battles, 13 positions, even correct posture. All that research led me to a few leads and I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about those.
1- White crane Style Gong Fu. Although I've never witnessed the style myself, some karate practicionners have and they all say the correlation is evident with various karate kata. Although I've never heard of a counterpart for Seisan. Yet, legends or myths say that this kata was brought to Okinawa by Chinese MA experts. Anyone know of a chinese form that would look a bit like this specific kata?
2-Seisan - Shi san Shi 13 basics - 8 directions, 5 stikes. Again with the kanji, I was able to find that concept in Tai Chi which tells of 13 basics. It's the closest thing I could find concerning the Seisan Kata. Anything like that possible?
Since it was all oral traditions, I realize that I'll probably never know why, when, how it got to Okinawa. Or why the kanji changed. But still, I find it's an interesting part of history. :-)
Cheers, all
Mat
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Mar 27, 2007 2:20:11 GMT 8
. Would there not be a danger that one would be charging ahead like a furious bull with such anger that one would neglect considering alternative responses, and potential danger? For sure there is. And that's what was written by ... it's been three years or so that I've read that article. What I remember was something like : 1st stage - anger 2nd - controlled and unleashed then, the author proceeded to say that most anger-type ryu-ha were letting out the essential part which was supposed to be tranquility of mind. I just hope to be back in training before the end of the year :-( cheers
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jan 19, 2007 0:37:40 GMT 8
There are reports in numerous RYU's of Sensei getting their faces actually deformed from letting the anger out of the bag.
Some stories I read - online I think - are that they became beast-like in their traits and movements.
I have no difficulties imagining that. I can easily imagine getting into such a state.
But what struck me is that they actually let it out in the dojo. I don't remember about the injury rate, unfortunately.
I've myself experienced that in sparring. To a very limited extent. When I'm actually not feeling in the mood and I get hit a lot, letting anger out actually changes how the match goes.
I've seen my dojomates do so too. But usually, when they get angry, they get easier to hit if I stay calm. And the other way around too. If they're calm, I get angry. The time I actually got best results against Sensei is when I actually pictured/imagined that my family was threatened. It's one of the first time Sensei almost didn't touch me. I simply wouldn't let one pass.
Otherwise, I must say he kicks my sorry ass and majorly, I might add.
I haven't repeated the mental image either. But it sure was interesting to do.
All real situations I've been in involve a lot of beer, a bar and an infortunate friend that got into trouble. So I can't account for a real situation. Most of the time, the situation got talked through anyways.
Be well,
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jul 6, 2006 22:05:46 GMT 8
"Have you hit anyone with the kata yet?" Actually, I've only hit a table with it. And a wall. Thankfully.
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jul 5, 2006 22:08:56 GMT 8
I do them everyday. Not always at full speed. I train full speed 3 times a week. During class when there are classes(no summer classes here) and at home on the weekend. The other days, I simply do the movement. Slow speed. Real slow speed. Just doing them and focusing on techniques or feet placement. Timing too. Doing them slowy, I realize that I chamber my fists too late. It really helps. Everyday, Seisan's in me. I do it everyday and again and again. Each day on my lunch time at home I revise those kata. It helps a lot. Keeps the memory fresh and forces me to think about what I'm doing.
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jul 13, 2006 2:19:24 GMT 8
Hi.
For my part, I'm not in TKD although I practiced something that ressembled shotokan Karate a lot and that was called tKD for four years. I used the bo staff during that time.
Now in chito-ryu, I practice the same kata I do empty-handed. Except with Sai and nunchaku for now. Next comes the kama, tonfa, bo, jo and eventually, the sword. I'm particularily attracted to Sai though. It just feels natural.
Cheers,
Mathieu
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Feb 8, 2007 2:31:02 GMT 8
Mat.. I realize that much karate training focuses on basics... but, in my opinion, basics is how one improves. I think basics allow you to improve once you've got the subjective experience to come back to those basics and say ... what are they really trying to show me. Colin I didn't understand the wisdom in these words until recently. Be well.
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jan 19, 2007 1:10:18 GMT 8
Mat.. I realize that much karate training focuses on basics... but, in my opinion, basics is how one improves. Basics are like scales to a musician.. they are the building blocks, or the foundation of the art. The stronger the foundation the better you can build on it. Sure.. It is very important to be able to USE these techniques.. and apply them... but without the foundation, you will find that trying to apply them will just be frustrating for you because you won't have the muscle knowledge, and the proper movement to achieve success. My husband, a guitarist, explained it to me in this way: He said that everyone wants to be able to do that cool improvised lead guitar solo, but if they do not know what key that is being played, and how to move their fingers on the fret board, and how to place their pick, and which notes can be used to accent the moment, and how to race up and down the neck of the guitar hitting the proper notes.. All that they will get is noise. It is through the everyday daily practice of basic scales, and pick exercises that you gain the skill to "jam" later on. I'm a guitar player myself. Believe me, I know the importance of basics. Discussing it was not my point. They remain simple. Yet complicated to "sink in". My point is that the 10% is pretty important and should be learned. Without having solos in my mind, I never would have learned to strumm guitar cords in the first place... And now I'm at a place where simply reproducing another person's song is just boring. Now, each time I grab my guitar, it's something new that comes out. But no amount of scaling of strumming, arpeggios and such could help me produce new songs. It was learning how to use those different skills that I had learned that helped. And that started by mimicking better, more experienced guitar player's solos. And if I kept saying to myself : don't try solos, you don't know enough yet, I probaly wouldn't have learned much. Once in a while, I tried some. Even if they were slow and ugly (noise) I tried and eventually became capable of doing them. If no one shows me bunkai, how will I produce them? By doing endless repetitions of gyaku-tsuki up and down the floor? Get my point? be well. ***Just for the record, I don't do much solos. I use to want to learn how to do it. I learned a few and lost interest in them. Nowadays, I practice more flamenco type fingering, singing and producing the general melody.- Just saying : if I'm asked to play a Jimmy Hendrix type solo, have no doubt, I won't be able to do it. And it's not what I want. Ask me the arpeggios to hotel california, some metalicca, I can. ;D
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jan 3, 2007 22:47:02 GMT 8
I have to agree with Colin here.
Too much time is wasted on teaching things that don't serve much. I'd say in a typical class I've attended, there was... 90% time spent on basics/katas and such and 10% time spent on actually applying those basics - what works, etc. Each time we get to that 10% part, I'm kind of lost.
And at the same time, I wish there was more of that 10%. The rest is simple...
Be well!
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Feb 16, 2007 21:58:10 GMT 8
Who hands out black belts? The first one was nice. Looks a lot like heian shodan. As for video links errrrr.. I have quite a few. Which art are you looking for?
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Aug 18, 2006 21:29:13 GMT 8
I like to keep an open mind for the possiblities of anything happening. I'll believe that the sky could become yellow instead of blue. However, I have to have my reservations as to how far I can stretch my open-ness. There are certain things that are a little difficult to accept. For example.. seeing the "hue" of a chi with the eyes. I have to ask the scientific question: "Which receptors are sensitive to Chi colors?" Our eyes contain cones, and rods which pick up the radiation level of light. I know that the effect of Chi on our body can have "sensations". That makes sense.. We can feel the effect of electicity when it passes through us. I've felt that awful stinging vibrating heat myself when as a child I placed a metal object in a plug. I've heard of Chi being described as having a "hot", or "tingly" sensation. Again, this makes sense. Our nerves work on energy. The signals passed up, and down the neurons are electrical. Chi is energy. Therefore, it would make sense that Chi would have an effect on our nerves, and give us sensations. I know. I know. I understand all that. why do some claim to see it, while others can't. I have no answer, as I'm no expert in the field, but merely translating thing I read in a french book. So... those questions are not asked to the right person, unfortunately. The only answer I can give to that is the following : In school, be it high school, college, university. I always had physics and chemistry classes. Math too. Always loved those. The greatest discoveries of today's science have often been empiric discoveries - luck. Penicilin or the light bulb. Will there one day a discovery about chi, light hues, dead people and the like??? I have absolutely no idea. I'm pretty sure the mysteries of the brain are not entirely solved. I guess it all comes down to where you want your practice to go, doesn't it? External? Train muscles, study body mechanics, train for speed, power and the like. Internal? Try the chi thing. Who's better? I have no idea. It's, I believe, an age old discussion with arguments already debated. I'm not about to start an argument on it. This guy's seems to have found a way to tap chi and use it in combat. That's interesting enough for me to try cheers!
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Aug 18, 2006 20:57:17 GMT 8
Mireille, indeed, I could see it making a lot of money too. I believe it's what Reiki is about, that although it's supposed to be non-profitable, the tuiton fees are rather high. But that's another subject.
I finished the third book I set out to read on Kenji Tokitsu's way of putting chi in kata and kumite.
Here's a very brief summary of my limited comprehension:
Through ritsu-zen - standing zen, they tackle the "little heavenly circuit" that is supposed to be the chi energy flow around the body. There's lots of talk around chakra and the like. But basically it's a big mental imagery thing. When you do get to the point where you can feel that flow going, you then start trying to inverse it, push it around, etc. He applies that in kata through what he calls zheng li. Zheng li would be imagining you're holding magnets in your hands and executing movements really slowly.
When enough sensibility is developped with one's chi flow, other person's chi can be felt and such interaction are what he applies in kumite. He qualifies kumite as being a big chi fire, or something like that. Notions of seme (as in kendo) and ki-seme are widely developped.
I also have to point out that the curing at distance thing is not kenji tokitsu, but rather a doctor that helped him develop his budo system. That was my mistake.
I believe all that is the fruit of something like 30 years of research. I'd like to see this man at work and have a seminar with him. I'd be curious to see/feel all that.
As for the definitive value... I guess there's no other way than trying to know.
cheers!
|
|