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Post by stu on Aug 15, 2007 1:51:33 GMT 8
It seems to me that Chon-ji is a great place to introduce the concept of 'hikite', or pulling-hand. Perhaps at a later belt level during a review of Chon-ji.
I also am curious about your use of the last two moves to demonstrate a throw/reap. I've been trying to make that work, but the hand/hip motion seems to be reversed unless you are doing an inner reap, which seems somewhat more advanced than the basic outer reap. In other words, for an outer reap, a reverse punch (stepping backwards) seems to fit better. Would you please elaborate on your interpretation?
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Post by Colin Wee on Aug 15, 2007 17:32:15 GMT 8
It seems to me that Chon-ji is a great place to introduce the concept of 'hikite', or pulling-hand. Perhaps at a later belt level during a review of Chon-ji. We use hikite, sprinting analogy, and locking of the skeletal structure in order to ensure that the lunge punch of all white belts is a serious weapon to contend with. I liken the punching and hikite hands to that of a two man sawing action - they both work in unison to synergise the motion between each. Beyond this, I discuss the idea of the hikite as that to bring back something, rather than that of an empty hand. So if you're not dragging something back in the hand, the hand does not need to be in hikite. Here's what I've got on Hikite on the blog... traditionaltaekwondo.blogspot.com/search/label/HIkiteStarting moves 17 and 18 you have a right lunging punch with right foot forward, the start of 18 is a step back with the right foot keeping your right hand sticking out. I have used this move to fit in an osotogari (the leg reap requires a pulling with left hand and pushing with right - which ends up with steps 17/18 position). My opinion is that the two punches going backward aren't techniques that are high on Chon-ji's totem pole of important striking techniques. If I were teaching a bunch of soldiers, I will want them to surge forward. If they retreat, it is only so that the next step is a lunge punch forward, if you get my drift. My thought was to ensure that once they strike the opponent, they can bring him down with an outer reap or foot stomp. Glad to see you picking through this forum! I've been waiting for someone to come and tell me how much hot air I've filled the Traditional Taekwondo board with! :-) Colin |
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Post by stu on Aug 16, 2007 12:05:09 GMT 8
I understand...but not sure I agree. For me, going through TKD kata has to involve the basic body motions of the moves so as to practice the correct motion. If you consider that it is usually taught that we end our arm motion at the same time as ending our leg motion and settling our weight, the leg motion is definitely out of synch with the "pushing" hand. A back-stepping reverse punch would be more appropriate here to teach an osotogari, in my opinion...I haven't found an appropriate one in the Ch'ang Hon set, but the stepping forward reverse punches at the end of Won Hyo are close. Maybe it would be appropriate for a person to (gasp!) modify the form to include the proper body movement....
So far, I have used these to introduce the concept of correct space control...i.e. sometimes you have to step backward in order to get in a good strike.
I truly enjoy chewing through this stuff with other like-minded individuals!
Stu
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Post by Colin Wee on Aug 16, 2007 16:24:43 GMT 8
I understand...but not sure I agree. Of course, of course. But for my purposes, my students need to be able to do a breakfall from the air at Won hyo. And good self defence training requires simple breakfalling immediately. My objective was to ensure that this was inbuilt into the form. With the breakfall comes a simple leg reap. So yes, between 17-18 this is stretching the purpose of that move more than a bit. But it fits my purpose nicely, and is very simple to remember. To use those to introduce such a simple throwing technique - whilst the other parts of won hyo teach more intermediate and advance throws is in itself out of sync. I can't do that, I'm afraid. All I've got is what I'm working with. :-( This doesn't sit too well for the strategic intent of Chon-ji for me. I want my beginners to think of themselves in 'attacking mode' and surging forward. Going backwards to find correct ma-ai seems to be a better fit for Doh-san or better yet Won-hyo. Excellent! Colin |
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Post by stu on Aug 17, 2007 11:33:22 GMT 8
I had a lightbulb moment today at lunch...Do San has six reverse punches, and four are paired with outer blocks which work for an entry into osotogari nicely. In fact, I noted in your syllabus that you teach this throw when your students are learning Do San.  In my teaching, as well, I have historically taught this throw to my students at the Do San level, although it appears in a one-step (we have 12). Coincidence? Great minds thinking alike? ;D By the way, I'm not trying to convince you to change anything...just thinking out loud. After thinking about this, I think I agree with you on that. |
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Post by Colin Wee on Aug 20, 2007 15:52:30 GMT 8
I had a lightbulb moment today at lunch...Do San has six reverse punches, and four are paired with outer blocks which work for an entry into osotogari nicely. In fact, I noted in your syllabus that you teach this throw when your students are learning Do San. In my teaching, as well, I have historically taught this throw to my students at the Do San level, although it appears in a one-step (we have 12). Coincidence? Great minds thinking alike? ;D I am hearing what you say, but if you put it this way, then the soodo marki and lunge punch in Dan-gun should work in the exact same way. I am hesitant to put the osotogari into Do-san because I want them to be able to do more advanced breakfalls then. The osotogari really is an excuse to practice the breakfalls, if you ask me. Not really as a way to force an interpretation into the pattern. For me, the patterns are a training program ... and skills have to be taught incrementally. Btw - the stuff you've seen in my syllabus is from the 'last version' of what I used for my school. Since going non-commercial, we've pared down more techniques and rely solely on the patterns as a way to guide apps, drills, and all individual techniques. Don't worry. It's good to talk about these things. I don't think I hold the keys to heaven. :-) Colin |
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In my teaching, as well, I have historically taught this throw to my students at the Do San level, although it appears in a one-step (we have 12). Coincidence? Great minds thinking alike? ;D