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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 13, 2005 19:25:18 GMT 8
From Colin's Old Blog, Tuesday, May 25, 2004
When I started the martial arts in the early 80s, my excitement gravitated towards new techniques and combos. I wanted to be fast and accurate. I wanted to be stronger. And then in my spare time I’d always wonder why we had to waste our time studying all these d**n kata.
Fast forward 20+ years. My work in the last few months has now utterly convinced me about the importance of kata. In fact, I’d now swear that any martial arts without proper kata practice (or its equivalent) are not proper martial arts.
What I’ve done has been to work on each kata breaking down each technique into interpretations beyond the apparent strike or block. Using excel, I categorized those interpretations so that I can track exactly how I’m interpreting each move.
As an aside, I found something interesting while doing research online. I found that there was a preponderance of Karate or Okinawan bunkai. However, there was almost next to nothing available on Tae Kwon Do patterns. Given that my practice revolves around a set of TKD patterns called Chang Hon, this in fact spurred me towards dedicating time away from my family and my Master’s studies to get this project completed.
The more time I spent working to unravel the mysteries of these patterns, the more I became possessed with the idea that my work was bigger than my filling in the ticks and the fields in my spreadsheet. I was convinced that the end result would allow me to symbolically codify my martial arts and fighting experience. And I was also convinced that the work would allow me to communicate such expert information in a standard replicable manner.
At the same time, I began to seriously question martial artists who were very outspoken with their negative attitude towards kata practice. While I’m do not question their prowess or their abilities, I do question their perspective as instructors. I feel that kata provides a framework, just like scientific hypothesis, in which people can work from, use as a benchmark, and sound off new innovations.
The further interpretation, the understanding of the variances that can occur from kata, the modulation of the timing used in performance is totally relevant to the core essence of the martial arts. Yes, each individual technique that can be generate from such interpretation can be performed alone and without the need for the entire kata, but this negates the ability for instructors to establish the required infrastructure to disseminate such expertise we have acquired over many years.
You can become the best fighter in the world. You may be the best fighter in the world. But without kata, you will not be able to verbalize your expertise, formalize your expertise, nor improve on such expertise. You will also find that you will need to reinvent many different drills or exercises to recreate the same things that kata so nicely establishes.
I am now convinced that the martial arts kata, oftentimes left as an afterthought in most schools, is an integral exercise that binds one’s entire martial arts together. Within the kata lie layers of meaning that binds martial artists across disciplines and across time together.
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 13, 2005 19:26:51 GMT 8
From Colin's post on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 in Karatetips Forum
------- In Reply To This Quote ------- Colin my man,
The last part from my understanding (at least the serious part of it), Iskan was sorta saying kata or forms are useless for elderly people to practice or it does not have any direct benefits for self-defense.
I sorta refrained myself from answering because I'll probably cram this whole page with my views. In short, "whatever you think works for you, will work for you..."
Perhaps you can enlighten our young warrior here (I'm positive you'll have the same view as I do...)
Best Wishes,
------- Response Below --------------
Thanks for the summarization. I was a little confused with the story he brought up to highlight this point.
Iskan - you are right. Kata is TOTALLY USELESS for anyone (not only the elderly) and does not have any direct benefit for self defence.
However, the further interpretation, the understanding of the variances that can occur from kata, the modulation of the timing used in performance is totally relevant to the core essence of the martial arts. Yes, each individual technique that can be generate from such interpretation can be performed alone and without the need for the entire kata, but this negates the ability for individuals such as Charles or myself to establish the required infrastructure to disseminate such expertise we have acquired over many years.
You can become the best fighter in the world. You may be the best fighter in the world. But without kata, you will not be able to verbalize your expertise, formalize your expertise, nor improve on such expertise. You will also find that you will need to reinvent many different drills or exercises to recreate the same things that kata so nicely establishes.
The focus on kata in my limited understanding of martial arts is as a vehicle to store techniques for learning. As a fighter myself I view such techniques as serious strikes used to finish an encounter. This however doesn't happen very often in sparring or ma training. And ...
Of course not all martial artists want to be instructors, nor will become instructors. For those martial artists who prefer to work solely on punching bags and fight in rings, then kata practice is an extreme waste of time. Furthermore it is bloody boring, looks stupid, takes too much mental energy to learn, and is best used by impractical martial artists who have no practical experience in real street fighting.
After all, all that is needed is elbows and knees.
Colin
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 13, 2005 19:27:56 GMT 8
Tuesday, May 25, 2004
Regarding Taekwondo forms. Unlike karate katas, TKD forms have an interesting arm extension between techniques. I was taught it as a separate move that could be translated mostly as a grab. Just recently, through reviewing my martial arts syllabus, grading expectations and instructional methodology, I was reviewing this assumption and came to the conclusion that the timing of the move was all wrong.
The way I was taught for Chon-ji, our first form was to perform a 90 degree turn and lower block, raise the arm to chest level than do a right lunge punch. But it made so much sense to do the lower block, breathe out, start the lunge-raise the arm for the grab, then punch and draw the left hand to the hip at the same time. This was confirmed by Stuart Anslow, my friend who’s the Chief Instructor for Rayner’s Lane Taekwondo Academy in the UK and a 3rd Degree Taekwondo practitioner (who also does Chang Hon patterns).
Below is part of the conversation I had with Stuart. In it I talk about a difference between the Chon-ji arm raise/extension and the Dan-gun extension. Chon-ji is done as a grab, whereas in Dan-gun, given the height of the previous knife hand block or strike, the extension is done as a strike prior to the lunge punch that follows.
Enjoy the conversation. It was eye-opening to see good martial arts/combat logic shine through across the world.
MSN Messenger Conversation 6/01/2005
***begin*** Colin Wee says: re; dangun Stuart says: okay, gotta go in 5 though Colin Wee says: after the knife hand, you extend your hand... Colin Wee says: is this the same as chonji to you? Stuart says: yes Colin Wee says: really? Colin Wee says: but the punch is to the face? Stuart says: beginners can extend then step though Colin Wee says: and the knifehand is at face level? Stuart says: yes, so reaction hand is eye level Stuart says: no mid section Stuart says: tis raised slightly as you step Colin Wee says: interesting. our knife hand is at face level, so my interpretation is that the extension is actually a strike to the face before the lunge punch Stuart says: fair nuff if you do it at that level Stuart says: I actually teach the chambeing motin of KH as the block & the follow through as the strike Stuart says: so the punch would be a granb perhaps to off balance/gather the oppoent before striking Stuart says: so in threory it could remain shoulder height Colin Wee says: that's how I teach it too ... in fact in the chambering, the right hand is also a KH Colin Wee says: with that thought .. you should go to sleep Colin Wee says: good night ***end***
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 13, 2005 19:31:01 GMT 8
From Colin's Old Blog posted by William Mioch Nov 13, 2005
Hi Colin
I'm glad I followed your trail across the internet to this blog. It looks really interesting! Anyway, as for kata...
I have to agree with you pretty much completely. Kata is about the most efficient way to pass on knowledge to students, both across places and time.
In terms of teaching, you can train a martial artist without kata, one on one. As numbers increase however, it becomes more difficult to give ALL the information to ALL of your students, at their appropriate skill and knowledge level. I feel in this way, kata is a way of "compressing" your knowledge so that others may learn (and even expand) upon it.
That brings me to another point. Kata is often designed in such a way that it may either be inpterpreted in multiple ways or re-interpreted to have a different meaning or set of techniques. After a student achieves rote mastery of a kata (as is often a new students aim) they will hopefully start asking why. I feel kata leaves more room for "imagination" in a student than does isolated single basic techniques practiced perfectly. This information exchange can be two-way sometimes, with the student thinking or finding something that the master may have overlooked!
Secondly, I believe Kata is a way of passing on ones legacy beyond your lifespan. It is easy to lose (or have altered) a single punch or kick over decades of teaching, but an entire form tends to "weather" time better, allowing both technique and essence to reach further into the future, carrying a Masters (, or group of, or Schools) "knowledge" further.
Lastly, many martial art schools might use it as the meditation component of their syllabus (sometimes without acknowledging it formally). This is also a valid reason for practising Kata, although actual meditation is just as effective (but perhaps not as well understood by some beginners?).
I love researching kata applications. Tracking down variations and other peoples ideas and trying them can be endless fun I find.
Yours, Bill (wmioch)
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 14, 2005 15:06:34 GMT 8
From Colin's Old Blog posted by William Mioch Nov 13, 2005 (cut) I have to agree with you pretty much completely. Kata is about the most efficient way to pass on knowledge to students, both across places and time. Yes it is! Recently I've been doing all manner of instruction based on the katas that we have. Self defence off basai. One steps off chon-gi. It's really good having a benchmark for comparison. Even within the kata itself you can compare techniques and this makes up part of what you're teaching. IN addition, it's so easy to remember kata. I've got a syllabus I'm going to send you, but using the kata system I've got it all in my head. I was talking with another instructor who seems to have a lot of problems with ranking systems. I agree that people abuse the ranking system all the time (7th dan 12 yo kid for eg). But when you've got a line up of different colours, it's really easy to figure out how to manage the class. The colours correspond to the kata, and the kata to the syllabus - meaning you're all set! As for the kata 'compressing' your knowledge. I actually think that the kata is there to weasel that knowledge out of you. Knowledge management shows how difficult it is to get expert decision making because expertise is many times on a case-by-case basis. It's tough to spout *everything* you know. Kata is there so that you can coax new situations where you communicate your expertise to your students. You are absolutely correct and people can always see everything in whatever it is they want. Yes, when the student starts looking at the kata, they will see thingst hat will make sense to them. My caution for you is that beginners don't need to see everything! As a TKD instructor I boil it down to strategy and technique. For me, each kata teaches a big strategy, and the techniques in it attempt to drive home that lessons. Variations are based off of that approach. In this way the student will have general rules so that they will ultimately be able to innovate and adapt as they see fit. No need to 1) pidgeon hole them into a specific way of thinking, or 2) confuse them with too many different thoughts about each technique in the kata. Well, I use kata from General Choi Hong Hi and from Shotokan's founding forefathers. So I don't think it's my legacy I'm promulgating. Very good point Bill! I'd extend this to say that kata can be a form of visualisation. This is severely lacking in many dojos. Even free sparring while coming close to encounters, is but a facsimile of actual combat. Kata helps create this beyond other exercises. So yes, practicing a kata slowly after creating a scenario is a great exercise. Me too! Regards, Colin
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Post by sifuwhite on Nov 15, 2005 12:27:15 GMT 8
Colin,
I would have to agree with you and stuart on the concept of forms. The legacy of a system is born and dies in it's forms and translation or interpretation of the forms.
Tim
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Post by wmioch on Nov 15, 2005 20:06:48 GMT 8
I did come up with a little thought today, for discussion purposes....
Which comes first, the Kata or the Technique (when teaching)?
Bill
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 16, 2005 10:14:12 GMT 8
My syllabus up to the first year shows teaching technique before kata, and both technique and kata are graded simultaneously. After that, technique is taught one grade below the kata, which helps ease instruction. Mostly intermediate belts figure out the coordination of moves fairly easily, so putting the kata together gets easier in time.
I have used self defence apps without the kata. Just recently I taught a self defence class using bassai but had no intention of teaching them the kata - just the tools that I wanted to show. The class x3 was fun, but they don't get to take away 'the gift' of the kata. The gift is where you can 'see' the kata in your mind and use it to compare techniques to.
Colin
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 16, 2005 10:51:23 GMT 8
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Post by sifuwhite on Nov 22, 2005 2:17:56 GMT 8
Kata/forms teach rthym, balance, focus and most of all disiciple.
Tim
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 22, 2005 9:07:14 GMT 8
Kata/forms teach rthym, balance, focus and most of all disiciple. Tim Where do you think the instructor comes in when we start teaching kata/forms? What are our responsibilities? How much to innovate? How much to institutionalise? What level to introduce new things to? Colin
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Post by wmioch on Nov 22, 2005 10:31:57 GMT 8
I think it's a good point to consider. Fortunately older and wiser people than us have usually designed a kata to be around a particular level. Where does the instructor come in?It's interesting. My last teacher had forms that came from mixed sources. Those that were taught to him with a strong philosophical component and highly formalised, he taught that way. On the other hand, he had other kata he created himself which tended to be less formalised and lack a philosophical component. Levels for introducing thingsBeginners usually only get very basic kata that is in a very simple pattern with only basic techniques that are easy to understand. Novices get kata that still follows these rules, but often uses the same basic techniques in new ways, meaning they have to apply new understanding to old knowledge. Apprentices get new techniques in new patterns, but with similar applications to what they already know. And for Black belts anything goes. Bill
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Post by sifuwhite on Nov 22, 2005 22:39:05 GMT 8
Kata/forms teach rthym, balance, focus and most of all disiciple. Tim Where do you think the instructor comes in when we start teaching kata/forms? What are our responsibilities? How much to innovate? How much to institutionalise? What level to introduce new things to? Colin Colin, I am glad you posed this question. The reason I am glad is because teaching is an important part of any system. You can't pass it on if you teaching abilities tend to be sub standard. Therefore, it is imparitive that the Instructor be involved from the beginning. Perfect Practice and guidance makes perfect. Even if it is perfectly bad. So, the instructor is the key to success. Tim
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Post by Ron Goninan on Mar 29, 2006 18:28:10 GMT 8
To me, the Taolu are the art and its applications, energy and totality.
In White Crane we teach the applications and Jing of the forms before that of the actual forms themselves. In this way the student is already thinking through the forms and their applications when they come to learn them.
No two students are taught the exact same in regards to the forms. We strive to bring around the person's individuality via the forms and their performance and applications.
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