mat
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Posts: 45
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Post by mat on Oct 18, 2006 1:43:29 GMT 8
Hello all.
About 6 or 7 months ago, I started researching on the origins of a specific kata, Seisan.
I know it's probably an over-used topic already, but I'm really curious as to this kata and I've hit a wall in my research.
Seisan, Seishan, Hangetsu, Ssi Syan (Ban Wol / Shi Shan) has no official counterpart in chinese arts that I know of. Yet, looking at Kanji characters used, the meanings vary greatly from
13, 13 hands, 13 battles, 13 positions, even correct posture. All that research led me to a few leads and I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about those.
1- White crane Style Gong Fu. Although I've never witnessed the style myself, some karate practicionners have and they all say the correlation is evident with various karate kata. Although I've never heard of a counterpart for Seisan. Yet, legends or myths say that this kata was brought to Okinawa by Chinese MA experts. Anyone know of a chinese form that would look a bit like this specific kata?
2-Seisan - Shi san Shi 13 basics - 8 directions, 5 stikes. Again with the kanji, I was able to find that concept in Tai Chi which tells of 13 basics. It's the closest thing I could find concerning the Seisan Kata. Anything like that possible?
Since it was all oral traditions, I realize that I'll probably never know why, when, how it got to Okinawa. Or why the kanji changed. But still, I find it's an interesting part of history. :-)
Cheers, all
Mat
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Post by Colin Wee on Oct 18, 2006 13:50:40 GMT 8
According to Bruce Clayton author of Shotokan's Secret, Hangetsu is "Shotokan's remaining echo of the Sanchin tradition."Perhaps you should start there and work backwards? Colin
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mat
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Posts: 45
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Post by mat on Oct 18, 2006 21:55:18 GMT 8
It's the first time I hear that...
Interesting. Thanks!
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mat
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Posts: 45
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Post by mat on Aug 17, 2007 1:31:10 GMT 8
I didn't find much for now. Except that hangetsu and sanchin dachi are often confounded... still searching.
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Post by Colin Wee on Aug 17, 2007 10:56:56 GMT 8
I just purchased a book Watashi no Karatejutsu by Motobu Choki - a contemporary and rival of Gichin Funakoshi. He published this book in the early 20th century. On the History and Change in Karate page, he says that Sanchin, Useishi, Seisan, seiunchin and Pechurrin are from China and, apparently are still practiced there.
Colin
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Post by wmioch on Aug 25, 2007 16:08:02 GMT 8
The 13 Postures of Tai Chi refers to 5 directions and 8 ways of emitting energy. Since I haven't seen Seisan performed, I can't comment on what the link might be if there was any.
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Post by dokandojo on Aug 25, 2007 17:21:35 GMT 8
I have been told, according to the legend, that kata Seisan (Hangetsu) originates from a Chinese master, Sei San, living in Okinawa in 1600th century.
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mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
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Post by mat on Mar 24, 2011 3:45:14 GMT 8
Well, everyone wants a style that was founded by a chinese master. 4 years later, I still have not found the answer. I would like to see the china version, but that too is still elusive...
cheers
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