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Post by sifuwhite on Dec 3, 2005 11:01:44 GMT 8
How many of you that really practice form understand the bunkai or interpretation of the movements. Colin Can't answer.
Tim
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Post by Colin Wee on Dec 3, 2005 14:29:56 GMT 8
:-)
But I like to!
Many of the bunkai I have seen has been haphazard to date. This includes documentation, fellow BBs, instructors, etc. This is fine and such instruction has been critical in teaching me some good things about martial arts.
But I think that an integrative approach to teaching bunkai is more important. The personality or strategy of the kata must tie in with the techniques and applicatons. Not forgetting the exercises.
Saying this, much of my bunkai has not been taken from more legitimate documentation from 'recognised' Taekwondo organisations. But if you go through the forums, you'll see some themes develop. There is some method to this madness for sure! And this exercise has breathed a breath of fresh air to my own practice.
Hope you all appreciate my frankness.
Colin
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Post by wmioch on Dec 4, 2005 9:03:44 GMT 8
I am constantly applying new knowledge or ideas about the way my forms are applied. I always start with the most basic and/or obvious, but I do not always settle on that being the most appropriate.
My experience with Bunkai in most traditional karate schools, is that it is a formalised as the kata themselves! Not something that I approve of.
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Post by Colin Wee on Dec 5, 2005 10:01:56 GMT 8
My experience with Bunkai in most traditional karate schools, is that it is a formalised as the kata themselves! Not something that I approve of. I couldn't agree more. There are a few beliefs regarding martial arts that go along the lines of traditional is better and real skills are passed from teacher to student. But if you think of other information intensive disciplines, a lot more emphasis is placed on progress, relevance, research, and application. I reckon that this deserves much more thought than just blindly following a belief system. Colin
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Post by supergroup7 on Dec 5, 2005 21:38:48 GMT 8
My experience with Bunkai in most traditional karate schools, is that it is a formalised as the kata themselves!
I think that it depends on who your Instructor is, whether or not the Bunkai is formalized. I have met more than one teacher who encouraged students to find at least 3 different bunkai for a certain set of movements from the kata.
I think that the main problem with Bunkai is trying to stay as close to the main movement of that section without warping it too much, but you have to have some flexibility to "use" the application of the technique.
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Post by Ron Goninan on Apr 2, 2006 15:52:55 GMT 8
The martial application of the forms (形式的军事应用) are highly important to our art form.
However I have been exposed to the "Bunkai" of others and found it sadly lacking in demonstrating or expressing the particular attribuites and concepts of the style or form in question.
Many just simply do not have a "connection" 连接 to their art and its inherent principles. Sadly many also lack an understanding of making the applications suit the individual student.
What do you think?
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Post by supergroup7 on Apr 3, 2006 6:36:36 GMT 8
Sadly many also lack an understanding of making the applications suit the individual student.
My eyes really perked up when I read this statement. The thought didn't occur to me before... once you said this however, my brain said "Of course!"
Thank you Sifu Ron, for revealing something so simple, and true to me.
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Post by Ron Goninan on Apr 3, 2006 7:32:59 GMT 8
Supergroup7 wrote:
I am pleased to know that something I have written has gone some small way towards helping you come to understand the Martial arts better.
But please, just call me "Ron" .... I am not one for titles and ranks.
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Post by Colin Wee on Apr 3, 2006 8:00:42 GMT 8
Many just simply do not have a "connection" 连接 to their art and its inherent principles. Sadly many also lack an understanding of making the applications suit the individual student. What do you think? It's a lot of work, and given that the student usually is not ready for such training ... is difficult to justify. For my approach, I like to think of coaching the student. But to change bunkai to match each and every need will just exhaust me. I prefer to teach the standard bunkai as needed, do drills, and then teach general variations based on body habitus - tall/short, muscular/lean, etc. Once the student gets to a certain level, usually closer to black belt, things are much more clear, and more customised bunkai can be presented or explored. Otherwise, there are too many techniques and too many variations to go through. Inundating the student is not helpful. Colin
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Post by Ron Goninan on Apr 3, 2006 8:15:46 GMT 8
Ni Hao,
Thanks Colin,
This is one of the reasons I teach a small, personally select group of students who have already made the grade of Black Sash/Belt ...... so we can explore the art as it appeals to the individual.
It is a very satisfying approach which yields great adavancements of the individual and his/her understanding of the art
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Post by Colin Wee on Apr 4, 2006 9:16:31 GMT 8
Ni Hao, Thanks Colin, This is one of the reasons I teach a small, personally select group of students who have already made the grade of Black Sash/Belt ...... so we can explore the art as it appeals to the individual. It is a very satisfying approach which yields great adavancements of the individual and his/her understanding of the art This is what I would like for myself. You should consider yourself a lucky man. Colin
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Post by timposynick on Apr 5, 2006 15:21:17 GMT 8
ooooooh i likey this one
Bunkai is the essential birth right to all of the forms that we practise. even though these forms are unique to our club, they were developed by me strictly with "bunkai" in mind at all times. every integral part of our forms were developed by directly utilizing them in a combat situation or combination of smaller situations to give the form a direct translation for "bunkai" or applicability. the entire form we use is not always the full expression of bunkai all at once. For us it can be broken down to the individual technic or small combination thereof. Bunkai can be utilised for the duration of the form or it can be seperated into smaller components throughout My full intention when developing our patterns was to give the students the opportunity to examine them in bits and pieces and even combine ellements from one form with another to expand their menu even further. T.
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 1, 2006 17:29:23 GMT 8
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Post by Guro Cory on Jan 16, 2007 10:31:52 GMT 8
I know im probably beating a dead horse here guys.. but i am curious when i read through your texts here.. When you use the term "bunkai" and you follow your own interpretation of bunkai... How do u see the kata portrayed? Do you see blocks in Kata? (I'll elaborate later on this) Do you see any thing other than kicks, strikes, punches in kata? Do you use the stances in kata as possible other elements within kata? Some clips to help you understand my personal aspect of kata bunkai: www.dkiforum.com/videos.htm (here it looks like Matt commonly uses a simular movement to the Middle forearm block.. however on extension of his hand he touches a point mid jawline to execute a nice touch pressure point control. His other hand occupies a nice finger joint lock. Second video clip: Matt executes a "downward block" however the movement strikes the meridian on the arm activating nervous points throughout the body as Matt gently strikes an opposing point on the face..causing a take down. kyusho.com/clip.htm (here Jim H. Simply uses a middle forearm block to set up a point in the meridian of the arm, then strikes the sternum w/ a reverse punch. then immedietly executes a firm backhand to the ST#5 point of the jaw line.. This technique is found in alot of beginner kata. www.ryukyu-kyusho.com/videoclips.htmIn KO3 clip David shows a method that is normally taught within the Shorin ryu style of crane.. this method of "palm" strike is found in many SR style kata. in KO5 clip David is clearly showing a movement once again out of KATA.. this is bunkai as i know it.. Now back to my original point.. when i started karate my sensei didnt teach us much bunkai.. his interpretation was a simple low block blocks a kick, and a middle block blocks a punch etc.. it wasn't until later that he shared with us a low block is a strike,not a block.. same as with a middle forearm block.. this was classical karate as it was taught time and time again over the years.. but we never seen bunkai in the 80's as what these video clips here has shown us. It wasn't until i think 1999 when i attended a Remy Presas, Wally Jay, and George Dillman Seminar in Fort Wayne, IN that i was awoken from my traditional karate trance.. MY mY I wasn't ready for what i was about to embarke on.. I met Master Dillman and had no clue who this guy was, nor what he did.. i was there mostly for GM Presas Modern Arnis part.. GM Dillman was just an extra bonus..but when i met him and watched his movements he opened my mind to a whole another world of what kata means.. i was blown away..then i began to follow his methods.. not particularly him or his teachings but his methods of bunkai.. I later met his student Will Higgenbotham who i trained with off and on for a moment.. who also helped me learn more about kyusho and its importance.. and \GM Will H. helped me decipher alot of my kata... Then i met a guy locally Jeremy Bays who is a Dillman follower...he and i shared for several years with one another and we had many kata burnouts trying to just put 2 and 2 together.. but i say if you've never been to a Kyusho seminar it would greatly be of good effort to do so..its awesome.. sorry to ramble on here guys.. have a good night Cory
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Post by Colin Wee on Jan 18, 2007 8:41:25 GMT 8
The term 'bunkai' is not the best term given that I really don't speak Japanese.
I like to think of Kata as the 'grammar' of a language. This is the language of combat, and is spoken differently dependant on the objectives and your opponent.
Patterns containing this grammar present theory and some practical applications. Beyond that, each pattern teaches you to think about a method of fighting. This means that it encourages you to explore different applications from techinques within the pattern. A point to note, a down block in one pattern may produce different results to a downblock in another ... just because both patterns may encourage you to 'see' different things from their techniques.
Saying this, do I believe that all applications should emulate kyusho? No, I don't. However convincing and amazing Kyuosho is, the fact is if you think there is only one possible explanation, then that will be the only thing you see. As for me, I can't possibly teach kyosho because I've never formally learned it. But also, if I did, I would be hard pressed to think of how I could teach it uniformly to a mass of practitioners. This was why my art was develop - as a teaching platform to soldiers.
So yes, I see blocks and cover, and different strikes. For instance, in Won Hyo, there are two kicks within the pattern. Any normal person would say there is one - a side kick. But the first side kick is done stepping backwards. The second is done going forward. At one level it is the same, yet when you want to apply it ... it is totally different.
Another thing that influences me greatly is 'Shotokan's Secret'. Dr Clayton the author maps out the differences in hard and soft karate styles. His point of contention is that hard style karate was developed as a bodyguarding system - which did not favour pressure point striking. Hard style karates pitted the one practitioner against a horde of opponents and required that they fight as a team. This kind of system can be taught easily to beginners, and beginners can be effective in basic techniques relatively quickly.
Of course I still think that pressure point techniques are valuable, but they do not enjoy a central position in my style. My style is rather concerned with breaking bones/joints, knocking a person off his feet, and/or using him as a shield.
:-)
Good post.
Colin
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