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Post by GM-Neal on Mar 11, 2006 13:19:38 GMT 8
I will be posting more on this Topic Later. This is the First Part.
The Lost art Of The Tai Chi Fan, not to mention the Tai Chi broad sword, two edged sword, double sword, staff, spear, and OH the Fan. The fan when open has Multitude of sharp dagger spines for thrusting and raking areas of the body like the eyes and face.
As in Tai Chi. The names of the Classical postures carry such names as turn the body and stalk the butterfly" "Jade fan subdues the Dragon" and "whirlwind swirls the leaves". The form begins in a manner similar to Tai Chi, but unlike the Tai Chi empty-hand forms, the movements in the Tai Chi Fan are executed at three distinct speeds instead of one.
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Post by Colin Wee on Mar 11, 2006 15:58:55 GMT 8
I worked with a Kempo Karate practitioner once a long time ago, and the syllabus was filled with these amazing, descriptive, mythological names. It was incredible. Here I am already confused with terms like 'up block', and kempo practitioners have to remember such long names. I wonder what is the net effect on applying techniques - there may be benefit when one is not tied to the notion of 'up block' and instead just learns the movement that can be applied as it is required.
The Okinawans have an iron fan called a tessen, that is used more like a truncheon, and extension or augmentation of the arm. I'm not entirely familiar with it, but it doesn't seem to have the circular moves that the chinese fan has. I don't think it is 'deployed' in combat at all.
What do you mean by three different speeds? How is this linked with fighting strategy?
Colin
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Post by GM-Neal on Mar 12, 2006 12:28:47 GMT 8
Certain Moves such as Kicks are Performed at Half 1/2 Speed. And the opening up of the fan is Performed at full speed to create the Characteristic of the snapping of the Fan {Remember a weapon is a Extension of the body & Hand}..Now the rest of the form is performed Gracefully at a slow speed like Traditional Tai Chi forms. Next i will get into the Names
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Post by Colin Wee on Mar 12, 2006 19:30:25 GMT 8
How is the speed linked to fighting strategy - why would the kicks be performed at 1/2 speed? In my style if the kick is done at 1/2 speed, there may be an application that either doesn't need full speed or that requires the leg to do something first with the fold (thus the kick does two things). For instance in Bassai, the knee comes high up applying destructive force to the opponent's arms grasping your gi and then a low side kick is sent down on the side/on top of his knee - not a move that requires a lot of speed. Or then again it may be that the form is teaching modulation of speed - slow to test out the opponent, then must faster to gap close/knock them out. Colin
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Post by wmioch on Mar 12, 2006 20:34:20 GMT 8
Some thoughts on the topic. I often find that in internal forms, the speed of a move is not necessarily the same as it would be in combat (obviously ). The same way as Sifu Vincent showed us how the circular strikes in his forms differed from the application version, slower moves in Tai Chi are often slow to develop a particular kind of strength and balance. Bill
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Post by GM-Neal on Mar 15, 2006 13:56:54 GMT 8
Some thoughts on the topic. I often find that in internal forms, the speed of a move is not necessarily the same as it would be in combat (obviously ). The same way as Sifu Vincent showed us how the circular strikes in his forms differed from the application version, slower moves in Tai Chi are often slow to develop a particular kind of strength and balance. Bill Yes You Some it up, Good. The Application would be faster, As in a Circle block, Strike, this may be done with a Slower movement, but when used as a attack it would be done faster & and at full strength. (the power & Strength Developed from the form it's self "Chi" ). Hope this helps ;D
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Post by GM-Neal on Mar 20, 2006 9:35:58 GMT 8
The Use of the fan is just more than Beautiful, and deadly, it can all so be use as a Shield to Block small weapons like shuriken and darts. It all so can be used to block the vision of the attacker. One movement in the form called The Woman immortal points the way, is based on a legend, as it is with many Chinese forms. there was a peasant who got lost in the forest and stumbled upon a very strange village. Now while there, he ate fruit and drank the water before looking for the way back home. Then he met an immortal in the forest, who pointed the way for him to get back home. Now he believed that he had only been gone for a few weeks, but when he got home he found out he had been gone for fifty years. He tried to find the village again to show his family and friends but was never able to find it. The other movements have similar stories
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Post by Colin Wee on Mar 20, 2006 14:51:22 GMT 8
Who would create a weapon out of a fan? For Okinawans, weapons were outlawed - the fan was a a good disguised self defence tool. How about the Chinese fan? Colin
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Post by GM-Neal on Mar 23, 2006 9:16:30 GMT 8
Yes the Fan was good disguised self defense tool, it was use a lot by the Women, and a lot of times matched what they were wearing, so no one thought anything about it. Like you have stated the Weapons used in Japan & The Okinawans Disguised say tools, that became Weapons. A lot of the History of my system had a lot of the Disguising of Weapons as well as the Forums. (I will get into that in the History Area). But would would Think, that a Little Fan could be used as a tool to hurt or Kill? Not Many.. So yes the fan for the most part was just used as a Dress Accessory, and was not thought of much, till it was used.
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Post by supergroup7 on Mar 25, 2006 22:02:56 GMT 8
"the Fan was good disguised self defense tool, it was use a lot by the Women,"
Were women the ones who mostly carried fans, and if so, would that mean that Tai chi Fan was for ladies to have some form of self defense? Wow... I've always assumed that culturally the women of that time era were discouraged to learn how to fight.
Grandmaster, what is the history of women and chinese martial arts?
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Post by Colin Wee on Mar 28, 2006 11:18:34 GMT 8
what is the history of women and chinese martial arts? Some historical Chinese woman got roughed up and decided that enough was enough. Colin
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Post by GM-Neal on Mar 29, 2006 17:38:43 GMT 8
You Asked a Good One There The women were involved a lot more than one might think. It is late where i am at now about 4:30 AM I will post some things later that might be of interest
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