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Post by sifuwhite on Nov 22, 2005 22:42:54 GMT 8
I thought I might get some instructor imput on the teaching of forms/kata.
What do you do to help the student remember the forms. In some chinese systems they use an analogy of the spinning hook kick as the Dragon whipping his tail....ETC
I am not like that though. I have my own method of teaching form. However, I will leave that response until I get some imput on this one.
Tim
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Post by supergroup7 on Nov 22, 2005 22:55:38 GMT 8
OOoooooo.. I LIKE This thread! But the amount of information that will come in will be astronomical. Each kata has it's own challenges. Then there is the generic introduction of kata learning too.
Maybe it would be best to have a seperate thread for each kata.. Do you think?
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Post by sifuwhite on Nov 23, 2005 3:29:49 GMT 8
Not necessarily
My thought process here was in the development of instructor communication to the student. This is not about interpretation as much as teaching for instance.
When I teach kata/forms I usually get the name and meaning out of the way first. then I make sure that the student know the stances of the form and that they can do them without hesitation Then I do the hand strikes only no movement yet then I do just the foot movements Then I had the Hand movements Then I do by the numbers then I do slow for form only then I do interpretation then I speed up the form then I ask the student to do the form without me.
That is the long way.
Tim
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Post by wmioch on Nov 23, 2005 10:15:12 GMT 8
I think as a general rule, the majority of students need to understand the parts well enough to perform them and have "some" applicable framework that they can remember each move with. Once they can at least "walk" through each move, the next step is to memorise the overall pattern. Once they can remember the overall pattern, then the more exact aspects of the techniques are corrected.
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 23, 2005 10:21:11 GMT 8
Depends. Beginners need the fundamentals first and then as soon as they don't have to think about those fundamentals, then you string it all together. Once they get the entire sequence then you start working on large coordination problems, one at a time. Then we go back to techniques, focus in on smaller adjustments then incorporate them. The memorisation of the name occurs through repetition. The story about the kata comes through reading the handbook. I would highlight 'whitebelt' applications so that they understand what the major moves should be.
Higher belts need to be able to draw from these techniques whilst performing one steps. THey would also need to draw on sequences or moves for drills. In grading, anyone can also be asked tough questions as in how many, compare, why, for what, etc. This is made clear to all so that they know what they've got to work towards.
Colin
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Post by Colin Wee on Nov 23, 2005 10:24:55 GMT 8
I have a question for everyone .... what happens if a person has trouble learning a form?
Colin
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Post by wmioch on Nov 23, 2005 14:06:24 GMT 8
It probably means they need a different teaching approach. Not everybody learns in the same way.
For example
My girlfriend and I are both learning Hsing I, and the Five Elements (the first things done) are much like Kihon stances and techniques, but taught more like a form. She was having trouble understand what was going on, what she was supposed to be doing (I didn't because I've done this kind of thing before) Once I explained and showed her what it was supposed to be in a smooth and fast motion, rather than broken into easy atomic movements, it "clicked"
Bill
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Post by sifuwhite on Nov 23, 2005 20:23:31 GMT 8
Most Hsing I systems move in a circle. Therefore, think of your self in a room of 4 walls and the set is moving within that confine. Stances are the easy part of the forms. It is rememerbing the squence of movement that is the problem.
Tim
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Post by supergroup7 on Nov 24, 2005 1:17:46 GMT 8
When I am faced with the challenge to teach a kata to a lower belt, I usually follow this pattern.
I review the techniques contained in the kata separately with the person. For example, with Pinan Sono Ichi (Heian Shodan) I'll ask the person to do downblock, rising block, and middle punch moving in front stance. Then knife hand moving in back stance. I'll make sure to ask them to turn at the end of a series of 5 techniques.. reviewing with them how to turn around.
Then I'll say how the kata is just like doing the above but in a pattern. They now know that they have all the abilities to do the kata, they just have to apply it in the right order.
We'll do the first 5 opening movements together until they feel comfortable with it. Usually takes about 15-20 times... I chose those first 5 because you start facing shomin, and end up facing shomin.
Then I'll introduce the three rising blocks to the first kiai point.
I'll bring everything back to the start at that point and review the first 5 movements, adding on the three forward steps until they move comfortably without hesitation.
That is my method. I'll add another 5 steps.. and then start from the beginning again.. slowly building up the kata in their minds like lego blocks until the whole pattern becomes one piece.
Usually within 20 minutes I will have a rather confident performance occuring from the learning person.
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Post by supergroup7 on Nov 24, 2005 1:21:56 GMT 8
I have a question for everyone .... what happens if a person has trouble learning a form? I'll break the kata into smaller pieces then. I'll start with getting them into the ready position, and moving into the first position. I'll face them as an opponent, and do a very slow attack, instructing them which block to use to deflect it. We will practice only that over and over until they don't need me as a cue to remember what stance, and movement that they need to do in which order. It's a slower process.. but I found that if they understood what they were doing with their hands, feet, and torso.. they were able to retain the sequence better.
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Post by wmioch on Nov 24, 2005 8:44:18 GMT 8
Sifu, I think you are think of Bagua, which we will learn after we have learnt more of the Tai Chi and Hsing I. Hsing I is the linear one.
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Post by Colin Wee on Jan 6, 2006 22:37:06 GMT 8
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Post by supergroup7 on Jan 7, 2006 1:12:01 GMT 8
Overall, the researchers did not find support for pairing verbal context with motor information to enhance performance.
Fascinating! Simply astounding!! It has always been the conviction of one of my Sensei that mentally knowing what you are trying to achieve with a movement will help your body learn the movement more quickly because you can focus your muscles more accurately. For example, swinging your arm in a direction rather than pointing at an object.
However, you must look at the fact that these researchers did not do a LONG range study. Yes, in that particular class you will not see a difference between someone who is just imitating a movement, as compared to someone who knows what the movement is for. I would suggest that within a month the student with understanding will have improved in performance, but the student who just imitated will not have changed.
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Post by Colin Wee on Jan 7, 2006 22:09:14 GMT 8
My father taught me and I believe that beginners cannot comprehend too many stimuli at once. And this is in regard to archery - shooting bows and arrows. Not much movement there.
So our approach was always minimal words and go in holding hands, twisting arms and moving limbs. I have other tools at my disposal for martial arts instruction - analogies and force feedback. Analogies allow the beginner to look at moves from how he understands already learned movement. Force feedback is when you try to get the beginner to understand how the move 'feels'. For instance, allowing them to feel the right tension through your muscles, or allowing them to see how it feels by doing the move.
Of course when I do self defence scenarios, or intermediate/advance kata work, you do have some detailed scenarios and you are doing some really specific things. But for what it's worth the research did say that higher belts were able to associate such information with pre-processed data and assimilate the lesson easier.
I remember a time when a brown belt in the states was told to show me a pattern, and this guy was telling me what to do, how to do it, what's it for ... and it was really jumbling me up. He continued for about 10 minutes until the head instructor told him to just show it to me as it is, because "Mr Wee knows what to do." After that it was way easy to swallow the whole thing up and then dissect it in my own mind. That's what I've been doing with TKD forms for the last bloody 14 years ... dissecting them in my mind. No wonder I'm going crazy.
Colin
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Post by supergroup7 on Jan 15, 2006 13:11:25 GMT 8
So our approach was always minimal words and go in holding hands, twisting arms and moving limbs.
I prefer not to give too many words, but to have the student "do" rather than just listen. However, I had a doozy of a young white belt to teach today. I decided to lecture his ears off. Call it the little evil side of me, but I just allowed the fountain of knowledge to overflow all over this kid. Hey.. he wanted to give me bored eyes, and no effort in his performance.. I provided him with something to think about. (With demonstration)
Something inside me warned me that this was gonna be his one and only class.. something in his mannerism, and behaviour.. so I gave him some self-defense awareness lecture. Maybe one of the points will stick in his head, and he will avoid a dangerous situation in the future.
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