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Post by supergroup7 on May 1, 2006 20:45:52 GMT 8
Tradition in my own training, a good goal setter for some of my students, I know who is my go to guy and a way we can recognize who has given back to the art.
Yes, Fluffy, I've seen that. I've seen the students perk up, and apply themselves so that they can face the challenge of getting in front of everyone and performing their techniques, and kata. They become more focused, and their training (and skill) improves.
I take my black belt and I am proud to tie it around my uniform every time I practice.
I admit it, Colin. I feel good inside when I tie that black color around my waist. I remember how much of me went into the effort to achieve the ability, and knowledge of that rank. One day I was just standing by the door in my gi, and obi waiting for my husband, and children to be ready. My 12 year old daughter came up to me with adoring eyes, and she said "Mom.. I can't help but feel proud of you when I see you in your black belt. I know how hard you worked to get it." I nearly started crying right then and there because she understood that it was more than just a rank, but more of an acknowledgement of who I am.
but i have found that for the ones it does change, they were that way to begin with, the rank did not make them that way, Life Did.
How profound.. yes.. of course! The rank didn't bring out the goodness of that person, the goodness brought the rank to them. Thank you for that perspective.
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Post by GM-Neal on May 4, 2006 12:09:58 GMT 8
Thanks Mir, It is good that you do take Pride in putting on that Belt, we should still feel the "Mystique" Of that Black Belt, the same way we saw it when we were Starr Eyed as a White Belt. I am sure we have all heard the story behind the Colors of most belts. you have the White (Void of Color)= as your mind is void of Knowledge. then Yellow as you began to Learn=(if you do not wash something that is white in a while it will have a Yellow-sh color to it. then we have Green, if you have ever sparred out side and hit the ground you will get grass stain on your white GI grass color=Green. Now after a while the grass will be wore out, leaving the Dirt=Brown color. now the Black is the last color, after Years and year of training your belt would become a Black Color=a Higher Knowledge, of all the Years you have trained. Now you have to understand in the old Days, all you had was a white belt till you had enough knowledge to get your black belt, that is how we get the different Color changes. So after all that we / you would take pride in putting on that "Black Belt". I remember as a very young boy, starting out in the Martial arts and seeing my Grandmaster {i never trained under anyone that was not a Grandmaster} and and That Red Belt around his waist, i thought he could do anything. I asked him one day what a Little Bag he had sewn on to his belt was for??, he replied it was Poison, that in a fight you could scratch it, then scratch the other person and it would kill them. I think it is the respect of that Belt, even if it is us putting it on. So Again Thanks ;D
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Post by supergroup7 on May 5, 2006 21:02:28 GMT 8
Yes, GM Neal, I have heard about the story of the belt colors.
I have developed a personal impression of the color changes, which I do not mind sharing with others. It is based on energy..
White: The fullest potential of all energy, not used yet, but available. Like the bright whiteness of the Sun that we cannot look at directly without harming our eyes. A white belt has all the potential within, they only need to learn how to direct the energy. (Sun)
Yellow/ orange: The student starts to learn how to apply their energy outwards. Just like the color yellow is in the center of a rainbow, you can see that the student is perceiving the various spectrums of the techniques, and stances. (Spectrum/ Rainbow)
Green: The student starts to absorb the energy, make it part of themselves, and use it productively. Like green plants, the techniques start to flow more naturally, with less thinking and more doing. (Grass)
Brown: The creativity, and ability to use the majority of the energy being absorbed, and produced. With a solid connection to the knowledge of who they are, and what they are capable of, the brown belt strives to grow even higher like a tree not letting the earth put a limit to their goals. (Tree)
Black: The fullness of absorbtion of energy... all of it being used effectively, and not wasted. Movement, and stillness at the same time.. like space. Filled with energy, yet no longer is it needed to have the energy visible. Ability just becomes present without fanfare. Then the black belt recognizes another Sun of potential within him/her.. and starts back to white. (Space)
Oh.. man.. it sounds even better when it's all typed out! :-)
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Post by GM-Neal on May 6, 2006 12:38:26 GMT 8
That is a Great Descriptive info on the Belt Colors, i was wondering as i was reading if you were going to hit on the meaning of the Red white Belt. as the white going Back to the Beginning?. Starting on a different path, the Belt colors that I all ways Love and have a Fond memory of are the Brown Belt the Belt before Black it was a time of transition of putting every thing that i had been taught together to get to black Belt. Then the Next would be Sho-Dan, the feel of Putting on that Black Belt and Thinking I had made it, that every thing I had went through just came to gather. Next would be the Master Level (The Red & White Belt) The dividing of the roads, if you will, on the one road mastering all i had be taught, and the other road, of learning all over again. Another Belt Color I all so enjoyed was Green maybe i just like the color green, but i think that i like i say a lot do look forward to a Belt because they know they will start learning a new Kata or Tech, that they think will be fun or Cool ..
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Post by Colin Wee on May 6, 2006 14:51:22 GMT 8
There are differences between the belt colours.
I notice a great transition between orange to green. The green belt is starting to put things together and starts to develop a distinct fighting personality. There's increasing confidence that occurs and learning is much more rapid. Green belts are some of the most exciting students to teach - they still know very little, but can start stringing basic building blocks to articulate really cool martial arts skills.
The next real change occurs before the person hits brown. To other people brown belts should be indistinguishable from black. THe brown belts get seasoned and are much more serious practitioners because of the impeding test to black. What I like about brown belts is that they're starting to understand what is the martial arts we're practicing and why we've done all the things we've done to date.
The transformation from brown to black is a mental thing. I find that the main change is because of all the expectations and the perceptions people have of black. The only thing that happens at this point - or should happen, is the 'leap of faith'. It's a lesson I've shared with Mir before. The lesson is that people start to believe in themselves more, and that's very important. No serious practitioner should be without personal self confidence. To not have faith in yourself is not a mark of a black belt. But this does not *have* to happen at this level. If it happens at a lower level, all the better. But it should occur by black belt.
I had my shodan for about 10 years. By the time I was promoted to 3rd dan and then 4th dan, I really didn't need any of it as I was busy with my own personal path through the arts. I am conscious of the political ramifications of the ranks, but otherwise such ranking is not so important to my own personal development. I would rather put the brakes on ranks and promotion for now. This may be the case for other black belts in similar circumstance. Typically they'd continue with their lifestyle and an associated organisation will draw them upwards through the ranks.
My 4th dan belt is a red and white one. I put it on from time to time. But I don't draw significance or power or sentimentality from it. The belt however moreso reflects my own path in the arts. That of a return to beginnings.
I have not yet reached or thought more beyond this level. It currently is a non-issue for me. GM Neal will have more to say on this though. I look forward to the day when I myself can provide other people with the kind of inspiration he can provide all of us.
Colin
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Post by GM-Neal on May 8, 2006 11:02:46 GMT 8
Great Post Colin, I will just add that Brown belt is a Level {Besides Black} that a student will spend the most time in. It should be indistinguishable from Black, the only deference would be in the color of the belt it self. I like you prefer my black belt most of the time, as they say rank has its privileges, I have the choice of wearing so many colors. Red & White Blocks, Black & Red Blocks, Red, and Red With Black Stripe. The Black Stripe is to Honor the Previous Grandmaster, our Associate Grandmaster will wear a Red Belt with a White Stripe. Most people out side the martial arts {and even some in it} will not under stand the Color of belts, But the Black Belt is something that most every one knows that marks one as being a Expert in the Martial Arts. In Kenpo they Keep the Black Belt from Sho-Dan to Ju-Dan, they just put rank Tips or Stripes on the belt for each rank, a 5" = 5 Degrees. I feel on each Level we reach, we must empty the glass so we can fully learn something new, and in the Martial Arts we are and will all ways be learning, and learning from each other, if we do not we might as well hang up our belts {No matter what color} and use them for tyeing something up.
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Post by sbwright on Jun 2, 2006 13:43:09 GMT 8
This is a very loaded question. With a number of answers depending on your perspective.
Rank is important within an Organisation for organising and goal setting
It is important when viewed in comparison with other facts about a person in assessing their credibility.
It has less importance on an interpersonal level. I have no more or less respect for a Grand Master than a beginer for example.
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Post by Colin Wee on Jun 2, 2006 14:53:40 GMT 8
You mean to say you don't treat beginners like the scum of the earth ? ? ?
Colin
ps. Just joking of course.
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Post by Will Senn on Jun 2, 2006 21:07:21 GMT 8
Within a group, rank lends an easily discernable relative strength to each practitioner. Meaning, you can sorta guage each practitioner's level of knowledge and skill relative to the others in the same rank pool. It's not perfect, but it allows the teacher to group students of like skill and knowledge for teaching purposes. On the other hand, outside of the group black belt, blue belt, striped maroon belt, these ranks become even more generalized. Take 1st Dan, what can you say about a 1st Dan.... well, you can say that they have achieved a level of mastery necessary to defend themselves, understand the basics and have enough self discipline to complete a challenging curriculum - huh!!! No, you can't really generalize like this - experience dictates that you make no assumptions solely, on the basis of rank. The only thing you can say about 1st Dan is that it comes after 1st Kyu or somesuch, and that the practitioner was able to stay in their art long enough to be awarded 1st Dan. Even higher degree ranks are un-generalizable to this extent. I don't know how many 3rd and 4th Dan exams I went to as a 1st Dan where folks fought with their hands down and where even the most controlled head shots were warned against - it was shameful.
Still, rank's important inside the school and if used correctly, even higher Dan ranks are meaningful. I haven't always felt this way, but as I age, I realize that there is more to martial arts than skill and agility - knowledge and wisdom play their part as well and higher Dan should honor those values. Which, by the way, belies the idea (for the most part) that anyone in their thirties should be given 10th Dan - if somebody claims this distinction and isn't very, very humble - run for the hills!
Where do I come off opining on the subject of rank? I've only been 1st Dan for 16 years and today, if I had to do it over, I would be more actively involved in attaining rank. The world is definitely geared to appreciate the effort required to climb the ladder.
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Post by GM-Neal on Jun 3, 2006 6:44:00 GMT 8
Respect has went out the window over the past few years, people use to give respect to a person just because of their age, and in the martial arts, respect of the years spent in it, compared to say a 1st Dan. So no mater what belt you rap around your waist, the Respect should be there for their knowledge alone and not just the Rank. with age as well as rank come wisdom and Life experience. where a 1st Dan just does not posses yet, I treat every one with respect, and Colleagues with more Respect for their Knowledge {all have something to give}, But My fellow Masters and Grandmaster with Love & the up most Respect, I am a 10th Dan But when i meet another 9th or 10th Dan I still Bow and shake there hand and Listen to what they have to say. Just my $0.2...what ever it is worth Hey $0.2 ;D
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 5, 2006 22:49:27 GMT 8
Yes, Grandmaster Neal.. I have personally seen a continuing trend of lack of respect for others, and for themselves being shown among the youth of Canada. Most shocking to my sensitivities is the lack of respect being shown to people of authority such as teachers, parents, etc. I have also read/ heard complaints about lack of respect being prevelant among other countries.
It is the rare and refreshing moment when I meet a youth that shows respect to someone older (like a senior citizen) for their experience. I wonder if the modern entertainment of t.v., and films could be partially to blame for this lack of respect for people more mature in age. So many children's cartoons/ movies show the children being the smart ones that save the day, and the adults as bumbling buffoons.
I am grateful that showing respect for rank has high priority ( at least in my traditional dojo that I attend)
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 5, 2006 22:51:22 GMT 8
You mean to say you don't treat beginners like the scum of the earth ? ? ?
Ha ha ha! You mean to say that there are other ways to treat beginners than that? I thought that "scum of the earth" was standard issue treatment. Ha ha ha
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 5, 2006 22:55:35 GMT 8
Take 1st Dan, what can you say about a 1st Dan.... well, you can say that they have achieved a level of mastery necessary to defend themselves, understand the basics and have enough self discipline to complete a challenging curriculum - huh!!! No, you can't really generalize like this - experience dictates that you make no assumptions solely, on the basis of rank. The only thing you can say about 1st Dan is that it comes after 1st Kyu or somesuch, and that the practitioner was able to stay in their art long enough to be awarded 1st Dan.
That is such a poignant point, Senn. I agree totally.. 1st Dan is subjective to the individual, to the organization expectations, and to the style. I wonder if rank is mainly a way of the various Sensei placing their students into a certain ladder of expectations, responsibility, and challenge based on the student's abilities, reliability, and performance rather than an indication of the student's knowledge, and skill.
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Post by GM-Neal on Jun 6, 2006 9:09:44 GMT 8
I Still treat my 1st Dans with respect, it takes a lot of dedication, to reach that rank, to them selfs, the art, and me, so i treat them accordingly. we teach that you give each Higher rank and lower rank with respect, it takes as long if not longer to go up a Dan Grade as it did to get to the First Dan Grade. Mir, yes i think that TV, and movies have given rise to the lack of Respect, i know when i was growing up it was all ways told to treat your elders with respect, and learn from them if you can. I fell that big ego's all so play a big part in it all so, we all have to see that know how much we think we know we can all ways learn something new and some one has something give and teach, we only stop learning when we die. If we can learn to move ego & Self out of the way, we just might learn something new. My $0.2
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Post by supergroup7 on Jun 8, 2006 22:17:49 GMT 8
This morning I was walking my daughter to school, and I was contemplating the whole question of why is it that it is so difficult for some people to learn. Then your sentence..... "If we can learn to move ego & Self out of the way, we just might learn something new."...... Grandmaster Neal, it popped into my mind, and I suddenly came to an insight:
The person feels that they KNOW it already, so they aren't in the learning mode when they see it being taught again.. therefore they cannot catch those little nuances of difference that can make or break a technique. Their "ego/self" says "I understand this now.. I can go onto other things". It is a sense of pride, and accomplishment to see progress. To consider that they still need to relearn the same technique but with the earlier "missed" motions included would be a type of insult to that statement. it would be almost a feeling of failure to find out that their technique still needs work. That disappointing feeling would be even stronger at a high level of training wherein adding that twist, angle, or tension in a certain direction could take years of extra effort.
No wonder Sensei Gichin Funakoshi exhorted his students to keep a beginner's mind, then one would always be open to seeing something to add to their technique.
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