|
Post by GM-Neal on Jun 11, 2006 12:47:58 GMT 8
I do believe you Got it, Mir
|
|
|
Post by supergroup7 on Jun 19, 2006 2:37:01 GMT 8
So then how does one balance that mental attitude of confidence in your skills that you need to achieve rank with that beginner's attitude wherein you are always looking for that little "twist" that you might have missed, and that can be added to improve your technique?
|
|
|
Post by sifuwhite on Jun 26, 2006 12:58:18 GMT 8
Rank in itself means almost notheing nowadays. It is a status symbol to most, in some school it is a standard of responsibility. So, no matter how you look at rank, it serves a purpose. But, in reality rank is only what you want it to be.
Sifu White
|
|
|
Post by supergroup7 on Jun 26, 2006 21:03:45 GMT 8
It is a status symbol to most, in some school it is a standard of responsibility. So, no matter how you look at rank, it serves a purpose. But, in reality rank is only what you want it to be.
I have noticed this phenomena in the arts, also, Sifu. It almost seems that the rank level ultimately depends on your own instructor's expectations, and perspective rather than on specific rank requirements.
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jul 1, 2006 21:44:41 GMT 8
Very good subject.
To answer what was currently posted as a question :
"So then how does one balance that mental attitude of confidence in your skills that you need to achieve rank with that beginner's attitude wherein you are always looking for that little "twist" that you might have missed, and that can be added to improve your technique?"
Strange, but I find a lot of yudansha asking that. I have yet to experience the feeling. I can only say that a lot of Black belt ask that question.
As for my view on it - Well, I have mixed feelings. I understand the purpose of rank. That they should reflect one's progression in the arts and give a "general idea" of one's capabilities. Yet, if it truly is the case, then shouldn't there be demotions? Which is something I see quite not often of. I'm sure it has a good purpose, I just haven't seen it always well applied. I tend to think that that belt is quite useless if you make about -0- efforts to keep it. In fact, it would be best said that I don't give a rat's a** about rank. I just want to learn and help others learn. I received my Kyu quite unexpectedly last month and my Sensei said I didn't show much enthusiasm. And he was right. I don't care much for a promotion. I just want to learn.
My style - Chito-Ryu stresses rank. A lot of importance is put on rank and you should have the correct rank to reflect your habilities. Therefore, my view is a bit ... (googles the English term) in dissension with my style's view of rank. But I get the importance of having ranks. They just don't mean much in my head.
Cheers!
|
|
|
Post by supergroup7 on Jul 2, 2006 22:33:50 GMT 8
Welcome to the forum, Mat. Big bear hug of welcome! Yet, if it truly is the case, then shouldn't there be demotions? Which is something I see quite not often of. See! I've wondered the same thing! From what I have gathered, there isn't an actual public demotion, but more of a quiet mental reservation of the higher ups towards that person. You'd only know about the existence of this "negativity" if you were of high rank yourself. I'm guessing that this quiet hierarchy exists in order to protect the lower kyu belts from worrying about the information, and training that they are receiving from others.
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jul 3, 2006 13:02:34 GMT 8
hehe, thanks for the big bear hug. I give it right back! Glad to be here. Good point. Maybe it is... But still, I'm starting to wonder if it means something. Karate or any other art if full of dualities. Slow/fast, hard/soft, etc. (you get the point) put that part is one-sided only. Go up. That it instills a negativity is a by-product of not having demotions. Look at a business, that's the way it works. Look at life - that's the way it works. I once heard my aikibudo teacher telling us that each day you pass off the tatami is a day you get weaker. I tend to believe that. I guess it's only wishful thinking. Because for most practiocionner, the arts are a hobby. Some take it to really high levels of training. But it still remains a "on the side" part of life. I guess no matter what style/dojo/dojang/training hall you're in. Theyre will be a form of hierarchy. Implicit or not. It'll be there. I say respect it. But don't let it rule your life as a practiocionner. Still, no matter who you speak to in the arts, no matter what they think of the ranks/kyu/gup, one of the first question you'll hear will be : "What's your rank?" And it's okay. Even if I'm not a big fan of the system, I see it's use. You generally get the idea of what level a green belt is. Because you've been there.
|
|
|
Post by supergroup7 on Jul 6, 2006 6:25:29 GMT 8
That is so true, Mat! The first question that people ask each other is "What is your rank?" Even if the other person responds with something like "I'm 6th kyu..", what would that reveal to us? One style of martial arts may have totally different expectations for a 6th kyu than the other style.
But I guess that it gives us a starting point of understanding each other, and getting to know each other.
|
|
|
Post by Colin Wee on Jul 6, 2006 21:35:37 GMT 8
Karate or any other art if full of dualities. The modern world exacerbates these dualities too ... we've got to be PC, democratic, sensitive/new age, environmental, international, conservative, philanthropic, and informed. It was way simpler when I was a younger black belt and all I thought was in fight mode. Colin
|
|
mat
Visitor
Posts: 45
|
Post by mat on Jul 6, 2006 22:42:53 GMT 8
The modern world exacerbates these dualities too ... we've got to be PC, democratic, sensitive/new age, environmental, international, conservative, philanthropic, and informed. It was way simpler when I was a younger black belt and all I thought was in fight mode. Colin Sure, it might have been. But how much have you learned since then? Is that what was originally meant when "keeping the mind of a beginner" was said? There are so many questions that can be asked... I guess the best quote I can give is of a friend of mine who asked me how to conciliate the infinitely big with the infinitely little. - I have no idea - Everything has it's place and it's time. But to mix the two? I'm not there yet. I guess it all comes down to choices. Martial arts open your mind. In ways you initially never thought they would. That's the good thing. I'm just glad I can practice, learn and share thoughts with what I consider to be "good and fine" people. (sorry, no better translation for what is a french concept) Imagine your life without all that. (blasphemy!) And again, what do I know? I presently think stuff that will probably change in 10 years and another time 10 years from then... Mat.
|
|
|
Post by mikeheath on Nov 15, 2006 3:57:03 GMT 8
there seems to be a general consensus here; one that i agree with too.
on a personal level, 1st dan is where my grading stopped (ie i'm not interested in having higher dans) but more importantly was where i felt my training was really only just beginning (if that makes sense!)
i don't know who's ITF/WTF/tkd/karate or whatever on here, but on a WTF sports level, as you guys are probably aware, a 1st dan black belt via the Kukkiwon is a requirement for competing at a national level. this is a MUCH debated point of relevancy though. one thing it does mean is that WTF sports tkd athletes have no real essential need to go beyond 1st dan.
whatever the tkd/karate strand though, i don't know when the coloured belt system was first introduced into tkd and why? they weren't there from the start right? the black colour originally came from dirt and sweat (so the legend goes!)? can anyone fill me in on the history?
|
|
|
Post by stuarta on Nov 15, 2006 6:43:39 GMT 8
whatever the tkd/karate strand though, i don't know when the coloured belt system was first introduced into tkd and why? they weren't there from the start right? the black colour originally came from dirt and sweat (so the legend goes!)? can anyone fill me in on the history? ano (Judos founder) introduced the belt system. Karate and many other adopted it. The dirt story is simply a myth! TKD originaly had 5 belts - white, yellow, blue, brown & black. These were later changed to suit Gen Chois philopshy of 10 kup ranks and certain belt colours changed to reflect the heierachy of Korean culture - specifically blue/red/black. For more info on the TKD side of things see www.raynerslanetkd.com/SECTION2-Ranking.htmlStuart
|
|
|
Post by timposynick on Nov 18, 2006 15:49:45 GMT 8
Ah yes the ultimate ego question Personally Rank is merely a tool for teaching. I utilize it as the Koreans and Japanese have now for some 40+ years. as a tool to gauge the progress of my students, nothing more. Rank at these levels is a tool for me and a reward for effort for my students. As a society we are reward and result focused. If we do not receive some sort of accolade for the work we do our confidence seems to get battered by our hurt ego. So because of this western mindset I utilize the rank structure. My students are taught to believe this also that the rank they receive is a reward for the hard work they have put forth and a ruler for tracking their progress. So far no one in my group has gone down the "Master" seeking path to become the grand pooh-bah of martial arts, too bad there are so many of these types out there. I blame western society For myself I am honoured and humbly proud to have the Dan I have. But for me this is merely a tool again to be used to progress my higher ranked students. So in otherwords if I want my black belts to stay, firstly they must feel as though they still have something to learn from me, not always does loyalty answer everything, secondly if they wish to progress into the higher dan ranks under me I need to have the venue to do so. I have had black belts leave my school after the promotion for work, family, schooling etc, and all of them have continued training i one form or another. so in that case they are progressing in rank, because they are still learning. Two have even moved into different styles. I encouraged this because there was something in those styles that i could not offer them, so I said go and learn and continue to grow. Again that is still rank progression as they continue to learn. Okay okay I am rambling on cheers Tim
|
|
|
Post by Colin Wee on Nov 19, 2006 14:55:15 GMT 8
Ah yes the ultimate ego question Don't forget the other one ... "why is your style better than others?" Colin
|
|
|
Post by sifuwhite on Nov 30, 2006 19:25:15 GMT 8
Wow, I think that you guys have taken this to a new level. Tim P. I like your response, about gauging the students process. I want thank everyone for their replies to my response. I only have one other thing to note on rank. I would like to think that rank inferrs responsibility on the student to learn. As I explained it to Colin once. It is like being in school. A promotion to the next grade level only means that one has earned the right to learn at that level. For example, if you were in High School and you pass the tenth grade then you were promoted to 11th grade, and when you graduated High School, then it earned you the right to go to college etc....... So, rank has a role in the arts, at what are you wanting to learn at. We have to crawl before we run....
Sifu White So, it is my belief that rank should be used in this manner.
|
|